On Wed, 13 Apr 2011 19:53:02 +0100, Jon Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> wrote: ... > Having said all of the above, and the thread being where it is now, I have to > admit I can't remember what the value proposition was in the first place. Time > to re-read... So, you just failed to provide any justification for a change to the status quo, while blathering on about how people who install servers ought to be able to reconfigure stuff - is that right? Next! Anyone? Hello, is this thing on? *tap* *tap* ... addressing one of your earlier questions: > Or in other words, if a server user does an attended install via d-i, doesn't > trigger expert mode and accepts the defaults for most questions, is it wrong > if they end up with NetworkManager? Yes. Unless and until someone explains why they would be happy about that. If we end up with the support channels full of people being told "Well, didn't you know, if you want it to keep on working you need to strip out N-M and just hardwire your IP address in /etc/network/interfaces" then we've done a disservice to each and every one of those users. Even for folks like myself, who are perfectly capable of scripting an install, I occasionally do server installs for friends simply because they have a spare machine, and I have a USB stick on my keyring with d-i on it. I don't really want to have to remember all the tweaks that I normally script. I don't see why I should have to unless there is some reason that the resulting setup is going to be better for a larger proportion of installs taking into account whatever the tasks selected , and other debconf answers, imply about the target machine. So, while my personal preference is wicd, I'm completely relaxed about the Desktop task installing N-M, just as I am that it installs Gnome rather than my choice of xmonad (clearly, xmonad would be an insane choice of default desktop for Debian). On the other hand, nobody from the "Isn't N-M great" camp seems willing to explain why I'd want it in preference to ifupdown on a server, particularly a co-lo remotely admined server. In all other aspects, Debian takes the approach that if code is not needed on a machine, we don't install it -- we don't do the RedHat thing of piling on apache, but disabling it, we simply don't install it. For a machine with a static IP address, it seems pretty obvious that you want to set that address at boot time and then leave it alone regardless of what else might happen. Perhaps the shiny new version of N-M has a mode where it realises its work is done and quits, but I have a suspicion that it does not do that. Cheers, Phil. -- |)| Philip Hands [+44 (0)20 8530 9560] http://www.hands.com/ |-| HANDS.COM Ltd. http://www.uk.debian.org/ |(| 10 Onslow Gardens, South Woodford, London E18 1NE ENGLAND
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