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Re: Back to technical discussion? Yes!

On Mon, Apr 04, 2011 at 12:30:24PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> "It is a profoundly erroneous truism, repeated by all copy-books and by
> eminent people when they are making speeches, that we should cultivate the
> habit of thinking of what we are doing.  The precise opposite is the case.
> Civilisation advances by extending the number of operations we can perform
> without thinking about them." -- Alfred North Whitehead

This turns backward immediately as you face a need to do something
less trivial than that is supported by the ready-to-use tool of your
> That said, for simple server network configuration patterns, ifupdown just
> works.

Sure. But it also works in complicated configuration patterns that are
not supported by any of the available click-n-go solutions.


> That said, of course for a server build one can just remove Network
> Manager and install ifupdown and go on with life.

Removing NM after a _successful_ installation is not a problem, of
course. But are you sure that, for instance, an unattended network
install will complete successfuly with NM in the background if the
network connection blinks for a moment? Or if the system dbus
service is restarted at a certain stage of installation?

I would expect NM in such situations to begin reconfiguring network
interfaces (or just go crazy) with all possible (and generally
unpredictable) consequences (disclaimer: those are my random guesses).

I very much dislike the idea of making NM the default, but if we
decide to go this way, then there must be an option in the installer
to disable the use of NM altogether in the very early stages of the


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