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Re: packages being essential but having stuff in /usr/?!

On Wed, 2010-07-14 at 19:26 +0200, Sven Joachim wrote:
> It's been reported as bug #428189 already, but without any followup.
> See also #532324.
Well while 532324 is a perfect example how some developers obviously
think they can ignore the policy just as they like (this issue is really
unbelievable,... wonder why we have all that policy crap...) in order to
save them work...
I'd agree that at least section 10.4 of the policy does not mandate that
the SUS3 Utilities are available,... as far as I understand it just
talks about compliance of shells providing /bin/sh with the SUS3 Shell
Command Language (which is not the Utilities),... and IIRC printf is not
required to be a built-in...

Nevertheless I still think that this stuff has to be there because of
the definition of "essential".
- Either this on is not exactly formed (so essential means only always
installed, but does not mean always available)... but this would make
the whole concept rather stupid IMHO,.. because then we'd again have to
check for every single essential thing we're using anywhere.

- Or it does mean, that everything essential has to be available
always,.. which would include at least the time when init takes over
from the kernel or the initramfs image.
But then we'd have a problem as many packages put their stuff in /usr/

> This is indeed a problem if /bin/sh has no printf builtin, but it does
> not affect people who use dash or bash.
Well but it's rather ugly to simply say dash/bash support it,.. => we're

> So is dpkg, and it lives almost completely under /usr, except for
> start-stop-daemon.
Well,... but dpkg is probably not needed during system startup...

> > That however would mean, that even outsite initramfs images (which are
> > probably a special case and do not count) many of corutils' binaries are
> > not _always_ available.
> Before /usr is mounted, yes.
Is there any policy document or that like,... which mandates:
a) What is guaranteed to be available in initramfs images?
b) What is guaranteed to be available as soon as the root-fs is mounted
(I mean /etc/, /bin/, /sbin, /lib/,.... but not /usr
c) When (!) it is guaranteed that also /usr/ is there? Is it after
$remote_fs? Or after mountall-nfs.sh?

> Only init scripts that do not depend on $remote_fs have to do this check.
There are quite a lot...


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