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Re: problems with the concept of unstable -> testing

On Tue, 16 Dec 2008 15:55:40 -0500
Kevin Mark <kevin.mark@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 09:34:39PM +0100, Thomas Viehmann wrote:
> > Romain Beauxis wrote:
> > > I think you completely forgot about the fact that this project is
> > > run by people who aren't payed for that.
> > > 
> > > And, yes I didn't fix any RC bug today, nor yesterday. I even
> > > have now 3 on mediawiki for which I won't be able to take much
> > > time. 
> > 
> > How about once per year?
> > 
> > Kind regards
> people can decide to not contribute to a volunteer project for many
> reasons:  hostile work environment, discouragement when expressing
> ideas are 2. A project as huge as Debian has a hard enough time
> keeping the 'fun' but making the atmostphere for people unplesent
> will not only discourage current people but also future contributer.

That works both ways - those who do contribute and help Debian across a
wide range of areas should be valued and supported, even if they show
that frustration from time to time. Everyone makes mistakes but why
must the most active contributors be the first target of criticism when
they criticise others who do little to help Debian? What about those who
simply obstruct other developers? Isn't there any wider consideration
that uploading packages that are unfit for purpose and refusing to fix
problems identified by more active, more respected members is only
going to frustrate those who do care? Those who criticise Thomas'
reaction need to also consider the causes instead of only blaming one
side of the issue. There are two sides to the argument and I've made my
position clear already. [0]

Where's the criticism of the original post that brings nothing useful
or new to the discussion and comes from someone who has done nothing
positive to further the release of Lenny? It's laughable. Why must we
always blame the responder and not the initiator?

Don't criticise unless you've done something positive - don't pick
holes unless you have at least some *original* ideas that could help -
don't pretend that you thought of something that has been discussed to
death in the past.

I get criticised for being rude or direct - well here's the news: I
don't care if people think I'm rude, deal with it. At least I do what I
can to fix stuff, I apologise when I do make mistakes and I do not
recommend something I have not done myself. Would that more
"contributors" were as active.

BTW, I'm perfectly happy with the concept of unstable->testing with the
ability to upload to experimental during the freeze. [1] Now is not the
time to deal with the actual details but equally, now is the time
everyone needs to support those who are actually doing the work, not
those who just complain and obstruct those who would improve things.
Maybe it is the people who only complain who should be criticised and
thinking about retirement themselves.

Overly long freezes are a pain but the solution is not to complain, the
solution is to fix the RC bugs, help with the debian-installer, help
with the translation team and get the release finished. That's what I'm
trying to do, that's what Thomas was doing. Stop moaning.


(hmm, must do something about those extra long URLs!)

[1] http://lists.debian.org/debian-mentors/2008/12/msg00180.html


Neil Williams

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