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Re: Debian desktop -situation, proposals for discussion and change. Users point of view.

On Fri, 2007-05-18 at 08:17 +0200, Mgr. Peter Tuharsky wrote:
> >Lennart said
> >> Peter said
> >> If You and several people claim they haven't met such problems with 
> >> testing, I can live with that. I also heard people whose experience was 
> >> different, and my personal one is closer to them. That's all.
> > 
> > All it takes is one package that has a dependancy problem to prevent
> > hundreds of other packages from upgrading or installing fully.  It looks
> > like everything is broken, when all it really is is just one missing or
> > broken package.  When you know how to read what the upgrade system tells
> > you you can usually deal with it or put the right things on hold for a
> > few days while the missing package makes it in to testing.
> Well, if You actually use the computer for daily work, it's not that 
> easy to "put things on hold" ;-)

You've already said you want the latest and greatest. In this case then,
you've already gotten testing installed. You are typically _MUCH_ newer
than stable. The things on "hold" are typically just newer versions of
what you already have. Newer by small versions, typically just fixing
small issues. And the fact your "It looks like everything is broken" is
far from the truth and in my opinion "not genuine". Users should never
see this in the first place, especially on a managed machine. They never
do on a Windows machine, except when it breaks, which is quite often.

Holding these packages is not a sign of BROKEN packages, it is a sign
that the package management system is working. It is preventing a
*BROKEN* machine. But then the USER never sees that, remember Linux
machines are multi-user all the time. The admin should be doing all of
this maintenance tasks behind the backs of the user, most updates being
handed into testing are going to trivial updates in any case... until
(the next paragraph)

Now in testing, if some BIG comes along and needs to be hinted into
testing, you'll never see that problem, as all the programs needed will
drop into testing at once. This the user may see, they may have the
machine rebooted on them. Just like Windows, but FAR FAR FAR less often.
Even then, most of the time, though, the user only has to log out and
then log back in, without rebooting.
greg, greg@gregfolkert.net
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