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Re: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?

On Sunday 30 July 2006 16:21, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 30, 2006 at 10:34:12PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > On Fri, Jul 28, 2006 at 11:49:07AM -0700, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
> > > On Fri, Jul 28, 2006 at 12:58:15PM -0400, Joey Hess wrote:
> > > > When Ubuntu leads to users having ideas like the one in the parent
> > > > post, this is manifestly false.
> > >
> > > Rather than blaming Ubuntu, it's more constructive to educate the user
> > > community about the (useful) role that derivatives play.
> >
> > Personally, I think it's fair to say Debian and Ubuntu are in
> > "competition" in some areas, and I don't think it's something to be
> > ashamed of on either side. Why shouldn't Ubuntu and Debian compete with
> > each other to better serve their users, both actual and potential? As
> > long as it's done in a cooperative manner, and with both of us willing to
> > share our successes with each other and learn from each others mistakes,
> > how is a bit of friendly competition anything but a good thing?
> >
> > For comparison, debootstrap and cdebootstrap are "competing"
> > implementations of the same idea, and both try to win over users by doing
> > the same job better, according to various criteria. I don't think
> > cdebootstrap would've existed without debootstrap, and debootstrap's
> > certainly benefited from copying some of the features cdebootstrap has. I
> > think there's room enough for that sort of competition in Debian, and I
> > think there's room enough for derivatives to try competing with official
> > Debian releases in various manners too.
> I agree with you that there is this kind of technological competition among
> derivatives, and so long as it is all free software, Debian and its
> derivatives all stand to gain from it.

You can't have it both ways; it is either competition or cooperation. I tend 
to agree with your previous message that it is some sort of cooreration, 
since it is hard to compete with yourself being Debian and Ubuntu developer 
at the same time (well unless one is living in some sort of splitted 
personality ;-). ... or you claim that it is cooreration is some areas, and 
competition in others ?

> I was objecting to Joey's assertion that "Ubuntu leads to users having
> ideas like the one in the parent post".  The theme of the parent post was
> that Debian doesn't care about the needs of its users.  I feel that this is
> an inaccurate characterization, firstly, but it's unreasonable to blame
> Ubuntu for a user getting this impression based on the fact that Ubuntu met
> their individual needs better than Debian did.

Well I think that if Debian and Ubuntu draw conclusions from such users' 
input, then they both are in trouble. Such users has always existed and never 
been a factor AFAICT, as long as their input is not based on facts.

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