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Re: Why does Ubuntu have all the ideas?

Ah, it's been a long time until someone came up with such a big troll.

Le vendredi 28 juillet 2006 à 09:02 -0600, Katrina Jackson a écrit :    
> A.  Ubuntu seems like it can get hardware support immeadiatly, but
> that support never seems to quickly get to Debian.   I have been using
> Ubuntu since Debian doesn't wok on my laptop.  Suspend doesn't work
> and my wireless pro  3945ABG doesn't work.  With Ubuntu everything
> works fine. 

Hardware support is kernel-related. If you want the latest kernel, you
have the unstable distribution. Of course we don't ship non-free
drivers, which is not something Ubuntu does despite claiming being
committed to free software.

> B.  Ubuntu members not only support mailing lists and IRC but suport
> user forums which are so much more user friendly and don't fill up
> your mailbox.

There are countless Debian-related web forums out there.

> C.  You seem to worry only about packaging.  You push people to
> package.  But you don't focus on making your OS better.  Ubuntu has
> made so many nice features for their OS that you don't seem to do.  I
> really don't know why.   I think you need to emphsise less packaging
> and more focus on making your current OS better for people.  Why does
> Ubuntu have to have all the great ideas for their users?  One example:
> They have a pop up telling you updates are ready.  Now maybe you now
> have this feature, I don't know, but I see great ideas like this every
> six months with Ubuntu, and I see nothing from debian.  Except apt,
> but man, one nice thing a decade is pretty slow. 

How is it then that while arguing about focusing on packaging, the only
example you manage to come up with is about a package? FYI, it is named

> D.  Going back to C., doesn't is concern you you have so many
> programmers but so few good new Ideas for your OS compared to Ubuntu
> that will help your users?  How do they have 10 times the good ideas
> you seem to.  And furthermore, when a good idea is presented to them
> they say, "good idea, we should impliment that" not "there's plenty of
> documantation, do it yourself".   

Debian is a volunteer organisation. No one here is willing to implement
all stupid ideas we receive, and believe me, we receive a lot of them.
Now, if you have received this impression just because of a single
feature request that some Ubuntu developer has implemented, there's not
much I can do for you.

> E.  Going back to the last statement, I could write an entire email on
> how people think you guys are so unapproachable and so down right mean
> to users who make these suggestions.   Users' concerns mean nothing to
> you.  ***If they did you would be spending as much time as Ubuntu
> coming up with great ideas to revoultionize your OS to better meet
> people's needs***  Why are you so mean?  I know you will either ignore
> this letter or rip my head off, but somebody needs to tell you.   

I should have made a collection of all these "great ideas to
revolutionize your OS". Guess what? Most of them are just a bunch of
crap. This may sound harsh if this is said of one of your ideas, and
this is why nobody even cares to answers to most of such emails.

If your idea of a "great idea to revolutionize the OS" is a small applet
that has been in Debian for *more than 2 years*, it is just expected
that you'll receive answers full of hate.

> E.  Mr. Hess has a nice supermarket argument but can't see that Debian
> needs to steal a few things from Ubuntu, ie it goes both ways.  

Depending on packages, there is not that much to steal from Ubuntu,
especially given their lack of commitment to quality packages. But it is
already the case where it can be done - whatever you say about it.

> There seems to be so many issues.  It seems you guys just don't care
> about your users.  You don't go out of your way to make your users
> have a better experience.  I honestly think you only care about
> yourselves.  I doesn't seem you try to hard to care about your users.
> What is the difference?  Why are you guys so anti being there for your
> users. 
> The reason why Ubuntu is more popular than you is they honestly focus
> their attention on making their users happy.

No. The reason is that they have a good marketing department that has
been good at using the "hype" they have created.

> They  actually seem to care about people's needs.  As was recently
> said, pretty and nice are features too.  I don't understand what the
> deal is.  Any, good programmers have good ideas they impliment, more
> then just the ability to hack to debug.  Is debian good for anything
> besides Debuuging, Debugging, Debugging.  Never and new great features
> or ideas. 

You want an OS that will just crash? Go ahead. This is just not what we
are developing here. But as a GNOME maintainer, I can only be sure that
your criticisms about new features are entirely wrong. Debian is always
one of the first distributions to benefit about new software and new

> I hope you guys will put some thought into this, but by the reputation
> you have I am guessing you will say, "If a user wants something done
> do it yourself,  there's plenty of documentation.  We don't need to
> change, we are the best programmers there are.  We are too good to
> take notes from Ubuntu" Unfortunatly I think you just aren't smart
> enough to read the writing on the wall that there is a reason Ubuntu
> has been for a while now such a more popular distro then us. 

Just like Redhat is a more popular distribution than Debian. However I
don't think we have many things to steal from Redhat. To go further,
Microsoft Windows is very popular, too, do you think we should take
software and development methods from them?

I remain committed to producing the best operating system. And the best
operating system is not necessarily the one with the most flashy
sparkles or the coolest name.
 .''`.           Josselin Mouette        /\./\
: :' :           josselin.mouette@ens-lyon.org
`. `'                        joss@debian.org
   `-  Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom

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