On Fri, Jul 28, 2006 at 09:02:57AM -0600, Katrina Jackson wrote: > A. Ubuntu seems like it can get hardware support immeadiatly, but that > support never seems to quickly get to Debian. I have been using Ubuntu > since Debian doesn't wok on my laptop. Suspend doesn't work and my > wireless pro 3945ABG doesn't work. With Ubuntu everything works fine. > Neither Ubuntu nor Debian do anything special to get hardware support that is provided by the kernel proper and tools that neither group created. Ubuntu might have support for a specific piece of hardware which Debian lacks but that is because of the relative recentness of their release - they just have more modern bits. I'd expect if you used Debian Testing/Etch then your hardware would be supported equally well. > B. Ubuntu members not only support mailing lists and IRC but suport user > forums which are so much more user friendly and don't fill up your > mailbox. Debian has forums, such as forums.debian.net, but personally I prefer mailing lists. > C. You seem to worry only about packaging. You push people to package. > But you don't focus on making your OS better. Ubuntu has made so many > nice features for their OS that you don't seem to do. Packages do make an OS distribution better. Without packages we have no software, no drivers, no integrated desktop support, no environment at all. > Why does Ubuntu have to have > all the great ideas for their users? One example: They have a pop up > telling you updates are ready. Now maybe you now have this feature, Debian does have this feature. (Package 'update-notifier'.) I don't know offhand whether "they" had it first or "we" had it first, and I don't think it matters terribly much. Some packages both distributions have in common (many!) and some start in one and get shared to the other later. > don't know, but I see great ideas like this every six months with Ubuntu, Please be specific in "ideas". > and I see nothing from debian. > Except apt, but man, one nice thing a decade is pretty slow. Updated kernels, drivers, installer, and etc. All of these are new ideas. And these are packages which you seem to regard as less important than ideas .. which I don't fully understand your reasoning for. > D. Going back to C., doesn't is concern you you have so many programmers > but so few good new Ideas for your OS compared to Ubuntu that will help > your users? How do they have 10 times the good ideas you seem to. And > furthermore, when a good idea is presented to them they say, "good idea, > we should impliment that" not "there's plenty of documantation, do it > yourself". I disagree with almost every statement you made in this paragraph. > E. Going back to the last statement, I could write an entire email on how > people think you guys are so unapproachable and so down right mean to > users who make these suggestions. Users' concerns mean nothing to you. Peoples ideas are important. People making comparisions and generally trying to stir up trouble are what happens more often "Oooh Ubuntu is better - you're dying. Ha". etc. One of the overriding goals of the Debian Project is to satisfy our users. > ***If they did you would be spending as much time as Ubuntu coming up with > great ideas to revoultionize your OS to better meet people's needs*** Why > are you so mean? I know you will either ignore this letter or rip my head > off, but somebody needs to tell you. I'd bite the head of anybody who called me mean in person. If you can be objective about Debians shortcomings and give specific suggestions about how to improve then people *will* listen. Calling people mean and suggesting that we're selfish and unconcerned about users will not accomplish anything useful. > There seems to be so many issues. It seems you guys just don't care about > your users. You don't go out of your way to make your users have a better > experience. *Every* *Single* Debian release has been all about making Debian better from our users. If you genuinely cannot see that then you're not sending a concerned mail you are just trolling and stiring up arguments without understanding. > I hope you guys will put some thought into this, but by the reputation you > have I am guessing you will say, "If a user wants something done do it > yourself, there's plenty of documentation. We don't need to change, we > are the best programmers there are. We are too good to take notes from > Ubuntu" Unfortunatly I think you just aren't smart enough to read the > writing on the wall that there is a reason Ubuntu has been for a while now > such a more popular distro then us. I suggest that if you want people to listen to you then being polite and offering constructive suggestions would be a more useful way of accomplishing your goals. Steve -- trying to take this seriously ..
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