Please find below the log from the Debian Installer "monthly meeting that's held every two months" of June 24th 2006 on the #debian-boot IRC channelm on irc.debian.org Log from the Debian Installer team meeting of June 24th 2006, 16:00UTC ---------------------------------------------------------------------- People who speak below: Alphix : David Härdeman bubulle_ : Christian Perrier dajobe : Dave Beckett fjp : Frans Pop h01ger : Holger Levsen joeyh : Joey Hess jvw : Jeroen van Wolfelaar maks : Maximilian Attems _Max : Max Vozeler svenl : Sven Luther trave11er : Jurij Smakov waldi : Bastian Blank zinosat : Davide Viti Nicknames mentioned during the meeting though these people were not attending: ninou : Sylvain Ferriol vorlon : Steve Langasek Hours are European Time (UTC +0200): 17:57 < bubulle_> OK, time for people who are actually around to say "hi" 17:58 < waldi> hi 17:58 < Alphix> hi 17:58 < h01ger> hi 17:58 < maks> hi 17:58 < zinosat> hi 17:58 < _Max> ho 17:58 < joeyh> "hi" 17:58 < trave11er> oh, it's a meeting, isn't it? 17:58 < CIA-1> debian-installer: bubulle * r38402 installer/doc/i18n/en/new-language.xml: 17:58 < CIA-1> debian-installer: Mention that needed-characters is required only for languages that are 17:58 < CIA-1> debian-installer: supported by the next interface 17:59 <+fjp> bye 17:59 < svenl> fjp: excpect the whole set of patches for monday, * 17:59 -!- mode/#debian-boot [+o waldi] by ChanServ 17:59 -!- mode/#debian-boot [+b *!*Kacak-4-@81.214.40.*] by waldi 17:59 -!- _TURK_ was kicked from #debian-boot by waldi [this is too much scripting for developers] 17:59 < svenl> bubulle_: hi 17:59 -!- mode/#debian-boot [-o waldi] by waldi 17:59 < bubulle_> Reminder: the meeting agenda is http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Meetings 17:59 < bubulle_> it's a bit messy this time..:-) 18:00 < CIA-1> debian-installer: fjp * r38403 installer/ (18 files in 2 dirs): 18:00 < CIA-1> debian-installer: - Remove needed_characters files for "level 4" languages (are not supported in newt frontend) 18:00 < CIA-1> debian-installer: - Rename needed_characters files for prospective languages so they're not included yet 18:00 < bubulle_> well, time to open the meeting, folks 18:00 < bubulle_> will be pretty dense so, let's go for the first topics 18:00 < bubulle_> Status reports 18:00 < bubulle_> [WWW] Partman crypto - 10 mins 18:00 -!- bubulle_ changed the topic of #debian-boot to: D-I Meeting in progress - topic partman crypto 18:01 < bubulle_> http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2006/06/msg00893.html 18:01 <+fjp> _Max or Alphix: here? 18:01 < _Max> ok, I'll be brief as I'm having a headache :-/ 18:01 < Alphix> The first point of that mail is no longer relevant...partman-crypto 6 has been uploaded 18:02 < Alphix> partman-auto-crypto is at the legendary state works-for-me (tm) 18:02 < Alphix> most other udeb's that partman-crypto depend on seem to be in good shape 18:02 < bubulle_> Alphix: from your report, I would say that putting it in beta3 could be the only opportunity to give it mor eexposure 18:02 < bubulle_> it==partman-auto-crypto 18:03 < Alphix> perhaps...there was little feedback gained from posting to debian-devel...a decision for the RM 18:03 <+fjp> I'm not sure that p-a-c is ready yet for beta3. 18:03 < _Max> I've started to review it a bit .. will send feedback to the list later 18:03 < bubulle_> fjp: if it's not in beta3, do you think it can be in the release? 18:04 < Alphix> It duplicates a lot of code from partman-lvm, if the default was changed for partman-lvm to put swap partition on lvm, the amount of code duplicated could be reduced 18:04 <+fjp> I've not yet had time to review. I'd suggest having just partman-crypto in beta3 and adding p-a-c for RC1. 18:04 < Alphix> I've posted to debian-boot and debian-devel on that issue, but received little feedback on it as well 18:04 < Alphix> as for the actual code of partman-crypto, I think testing and documentation are the two main issues 18:05 <+fjp> What we really need for partman-crypto is some documentation. Alphix and _Max have promised to work on that. 18:05 < _Max> agreed 18:05 < bubulle_> fjp: do you make this a requirement for being in beta3? 18:05 < waldi> fjp: i intend to fix the module problem in the next days, so it can be integrated into the d-i kernel build after beta3 18:05 < Alphix> And there is the problem with root-on-crypto...the password prompt has no keymap loaded in the initramfs image 18:05 * fjp does not understand 18:06 < Alphix> That's #337663 which has been marked wontfix 18:06 < maks> en-de keymap 18:06 < _Max> see partman-crypto/TODO 18:06 < maks> Alphix: for general initramfs it is not relevant 18:06 < waldi> Alphix: the problem is, which keymap to integrate? 18:06 < Alphix> in the initramfs image...when you get a prompt to enter the password (when booting your newly installed system), no keymap is loaded....not sure what to do 18:06 < Alphix> maks: agreed 18:07 < Alphix> And I should add that I haven't really alerted maks to the issue yet :) 18:07 <+fjp> Ah. Not really an installer problem, but a usability problem on reboots. 18:07 < maks> cryptsetup can add keymap, but should wisely choose.. 18:07 < bubulle_> Alphix: I think that if that's properly documented, people can live with having to enter the pwd on a US-mapped kbd 18:08 < bubulle_> and, yes, that's me saying this...the user of the crappy French kbd 18:08 < Alphix> bubulle_: yes, I'll probably add a warning to the "enter password" template as a temporary solution 18:08 < bubulle_> anything else on p-c? 18:08 <+fjp> Could we detect this in d-i and add a keymap in the initramfs config when needed? 18:09 < Alphix> fjp: probably....I'll look into a fix for cryptsetup initramfs scripts 18:09 < maks> only if that hook gets added to regular cryptsetup too 18:09 <+fjp> Or is there no support for keymaps at all currently in initrd generators? 18:09 < Alphix> none at all in initramfs-tools as far as I know 18:09 < maks> correct 18:09 < bubulle_> if that's done, I suggest someone considers the BR to grub-installer to make it use an appropriate keymap depending on the current keymap 18:10 <+fjp> OK. I'll leave you to sort that out. Is a documentation issue at the very least. 18:10 < bubulle_> waldi: juhu..:) 18:10 < Alphix> but grub-installer would be a completely separate issue.... 18:10 < waldi> bubulle_: yep :) 18:10 < maks> Alphix not from a user point of view 18:10 < Alphix> agreed 18:11 < _Max> question: should we make dm-crypt the default? 18:11 < _Max> I think that would be good 18:11 < maks> what is current default? 18:11 < bubulle_> OK, we're out of time for p-c folks 18:11 < Alphix> _Max: I agree 18:11 < bubulle_> more to add? 18:11 < Alphix> maks: loop-AES 18:11 < maks> ooh yes dm-crypt 18:11 < bubulle_> the conclusion seems: p-c in beta3 and no p-a-c 18:12 < waldi> bubulle_: and dm-crypt default 18:12 < Alphix> bubulle_: I've got nothing more to report at least 18:12 < _Max> ok, let's do it. we'll sort out the details ;) 18:12 <+fjp> Alphix, _Max: please concentrate on getting p-c release ready. 18:12 < _Max> fjp: will do 18:12 -!- bubulle_ changed the topic of #debian-boot to: D-I Meeting in progress - Graphical installer 10 mins 18:12 < bubulle_> http://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2006/06/msg00902.html 18:12 < zinosat> fonts and new libraries are still the hot topics for g-i. 18:12 < Alphix> I'll be somewhat absent minded from now on....world cup :) 18:12 < zinosat> cairo is avilable as experimental set of packages and Joss said he would have tried to work on gtk+-directfb during this weekend 18:13 <+fjp> Alphix: Why? You've already lost AFAICT from radio... 18:13 < zinosat> this on the libs side 18:13 < bubulle_> anyone could try to bring Joss in right now? 18:13 < Alphix> fjp: don't torment me 18:13 < dajobe> I'm going to make a new cairo directfb exp deb today 18:13 < zinosat> ttf-thai-udeb made it in the archives: ttf-bpg-georgian-fonts, ttf-farsiweb, ttf-tamil-fonts still missing 18:13 < zinosat> dajobe, what about the cairo-directfb-dev.deb 18:14 < dajobe> zinosat: that's in the package too 18:14 < bubulle_> jvw: around? 18:14 <+fjp> There's still some uncertainty about the libs. Hopefully dajobe, Joss and attilio/davide can sort it out while working on it 18:14 < jvw> bubulle_: sí 18:14 < zinosat> cool. I think it makes alot of sense to include it 18:14 < bubulle_> jvw: could something be done for those package mentioned above, which need NEW processing because they have a udeb added? 18:14 < jvw> notlistening/attending this meeting though, so whatever your question was, please repeat? 18:15 <+fjp> Important is that nothing is uploaded into unstable until all is ready as else we'd break existing g-i. 18:15 <+fjp> Uploading to experimental is fine, but experimental does not support udebs yet... 18:15 < dajobe> for cairo, it won't go into unstable till 1.2.0 is released 18:15 < zinosat> in anutshell: it's possible to use directfb in place of X, so that deb could be useful for ppl choosing that solution 18:15 < waldi> fjp: AFAIK it does 18:15 < waldi> fjp: but the PAckages files are not generated 18:15 < jvw> I'm happy to process some packages through NEW if there's some need for them etc -- mostly, if fjp requests such things, I do it right away 18:15 <+fjp> waldi: OK 18:15 < jvw> because I know fjp doesn't request so lightly 18:16 < zinosat> fjp, I'll write how to "migrate" to the new libs in the wiki 18:16 <+fjp> zinosat: Did you mean cairo-directfb-_dev_.deb or a normal lib package? 18:16 < zinosat> the first 18:17 <+fjp> OK 18:17 <+fjp> zinosat: Do we still want fc-list? 18:17 < zinosat> good point. admit I haven't dug into that 18:17 < zinosat> for now no. 18:18 < bubulle_> zinosat: what about this #374902 which seems to hurt g-i? 18:18 < svenl> BTW, what of [-oskar-]'s C reimplementation of gparted ? He ended his 'stage' yesterday, i am not sure how fully mature it is, but it could benefit from widder exposure, and future development in case [-oskar-] has no time to follow on it. 18:18 <+fjp> We need something for font switching though. 18:18 < CIA-1> debian-installer: adn-guest * r38404 packages/po/ar.po: [l10n] Synchronise with Arabeyes CVS 18:18 < svenl> the code is in the parted svn on alioth. 18:18 <+fjp> svenl: To be honest, we have not seen anything from oskar... 18:18 < zinosat> bubulle_, it would be great if vorlon uploaded a package with the fix 18:19 < bubulle_> well anything more on g-i? 18:19 <+fjp> I doubt it's an option for Etch anyway, but if someone wants to adopt it that would be fine. 18:19 < zinosat> fjp, switching font is needed, fontsize change should be handled by fixing the ttf file in the udeb IMO 18:20 < svenl> fjp: he is waiting for the 2.8+ gtk stuff, so no wonder. 18:20 <+fjp> Oskar should do an extensive report on status to d-boot. 18:20 < zinosat> bubulle_, I'm about to file a bug against freefont 18:20 < bubulle_> zinosat: bleh..:) 18:20 < bubulle_> OK, let's move 18:20 <+fjp> zinosat: Let's discuss that first... 18:20 <+fjp> bubulle_: Wait. 18:20 < bubulle_> ok 18:21 <+fjp> Anything for Np239 ? 18:21 < svenl> fjp: i am just telling this here so people are aware, and know that if he doesn't follow on this now, that someone other interested wants to jump in 18:21 < zinosat> Np239, it'd be great if gtk+-directfb would be available 18:21 < bubulle_> fjp: I tried to ping Np239 but he seems away right now 18:22 <+fjp> Cool. dajobe: could you upload yor next version there as well? 18:22 < dajobe> Np239: pls wait till I make the cairo 1.1.10 exp debs since some needed fixes are in there 18:22 < zinosat> Np239, if you come up with something experimental let us now (d-boot) and I'll test it 18:22 < dajobe> fjp: yes, within the hour I hope 18:22 < h01ger> svenl, a summary in mail from oskar would be good/better... 18:22 <+fjp> I'll bug ftp-masters about getting packages files for udebs there. 18:22 < zinosat> dajobe, as far as compilation is concerned 1.1.6 would be enough 18:22 < bubulle_> more stuff or can we move on now (/me looks watch)? 18:23 <+fjp> Move on I think. 18:23 <+fjp> dajobe, Np239: thanks for your work 18:23 < zinosat> yeah 18:23 -!- bubulle_ changed the topic of #debian-boot to: D-I Meeting in progress - Beta 3 release - Main blocker is that we need 2.6.16 in testing 18:23 < bubulle_> Reminder: overview is http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/EtchBeta3Prep 18:24 <+fjp> Release preparations have basically just really started. 18:24 <+fjp> Tentative plan is release in 3 weeks. 18:24 * bubulle_ would really like to see it before leaving so 3 weeks is fine 18:25 <+fjp> Depends on what happens with 2.6.16 kernel migration to testing. If that goes normally, three weeks should be doable. 18:25 < bubulle_> About 2.6.16, what are we missing? 18:25 < waldi> meta packages 18:25 <+fjp> And kernel udebs for some arches. 18:25 < bubulle_> which? 18:26 <+fjp> Currently most. I'll start bugging porters after the weekend. 18:26 <+fjp> waldi: I did s390 yesterday (but you probably saw that) 18:26 < waldi> fjp: yep 18:26 < bubulle_> do we have visibility on the kernel release we will ship Etch with? 18:27 <+fjp> Not really. 18:27 < maks> not decided yet afaik 18:27 < waldi> bubulle_: no 18:27 <+fjp> Consensus! 18:27 < bubulle_> :) 18:27 < maks> 2.6.17 has arch advantages 18:27 < maks> but not yet many stable releases on his back ;) 18:27 <+fjp> Any questions or issues relevant for the release? 18:28 < bubulle_> OK, more about kernel release (with beta3 in mind)? 18:28 < bubulle_> fjp: twinned brains... 18:28 < waldi> no 18:28 -!- bubulle_ changed the topic of #debian-boot to: D-I Meeting in progress - Beta 3 release - Massive coordinated migration of udebs needed: most interdepend 18:29 < bubulle_> fjp, joeyh: this is usually your baby..:) 18:29 <+fjp> Not much to say about that. We have a lot of structural changes where udebs depend on each other. 18:29 < joeyh> yeah, I think this is best approached by checking if there are any updated udebs we don't want to let in 18:29 <+fjp> So basically, all udebs have to migrate together and beta2 will break as soon as we do. 18:30 < bubulle_> fjp: so it's likely that at some moment, migrations break testing installs..:-) 18:30 < joeyh> note that there are also several removals that will need coordination, eg prebaseconfig 18:30 <+fjp> joeyh: I don't know of any. 18:30 < waldi> fjp: partitioner, partconf? 18:31 < bubulle_> fjp, joeyh: most uploads to unstable have already been done, right? 18:31 < joeyh> we also need to check if any non-di udebs will be held out by any other issues with their debs 18:31 <+fjp> What I do want to ask is to check changes in trunk that could be unwanted for beta3 with me before you commit them 18:31 < joeyh> probably another round of translation uploads 18:31 < bubulle_> yeah, fjp recent mail triggered a lot of translation and QA activity 18:31 <+fjp> As joey says. There are very few pending functional changes. 18:32 < bubulle_> on that matter, while working on seppy scripts, I try to get translation status for testing 18:32 <+fjp> joeyh: Yes, I'll start checking non-d-i udebs next week 18:32 < bubulle_> this will help just before the release, to request translation uploads of non DI packages 18:33 -!- bubulle_ changed the topic of #debian-boot to: D-I Meeting in progress - Beta 3 release - Some changes in debian-cd needed after migration 18:34 < joeyh> what are those? 18:34 < bubulle_> fjp: ? 18:34 <+fjp> Mostly S/390 and sparc update 18:34 < svenl> maybe some powerpc stuff too ? 18:35 <+fjp> Also I'm thinking if we should add yaird to netinsts now that size is relaxed. 18:36 <+fjp> svenl: g-i integration needs doing for ppc. I'm not aware of anything else. I'll ask colin to check things. 18:36 <+fjp> svenl: Please mail if you know about needed changes. 18:37 < bubulle_> maybe possible to briefly mention changes here so that I can mention them in the report 18:37 <+fjp> joeyh: What do you think about adding yaird? 18:37 < h01ger> fjp, g-i on powerpc is a different initrd atm? 18:37 < svenl> fjp: did the hang-at-boot on g-i/powerpc get solved ? 18:37 <+fjp> h01ger: Currently only a separate mini.iso is available 18:38 * h01ger will get a oldword g3 tonite - hopefully g-i testing on that machine is feasable and fun :) 18:38 < joeyh> well, some mixed feelings 18:38 <+fjp> svenl: No idea. I think eddyp still had problems. 18:38 < h01ger> fjp, ah. cds dont boot on oldworld... (our cds..) 18:38 < maks> fjp: yaird upstream seems mia 18:38 <+fjp> maks: Yes, I know. 18:39 <+fjp> svenl: Did you used to build g-i for oldworld? 18:39 < maks> please take a look for the table on the debian wiki 18:39 < maks> http://wiki.debian.org/InitrdReplacementOptions 18:39 < Alphix> maybe I should add that partman-crypto has had no testing as far as I know with yaird 18:40 <+fjp> initramfs-tools will remain the default 18:40 < svenl> fjp: i never tried on oldworld, the same image should work just fine, the problem is with the ramdisk size, which may hit some oldworld firmware size limits. 18:40 < svenl> fjp: naturally, doing miboot-floppies g-i strikes me as less than optimal, so the bootx method is the way to go. 18:40 < maks> fjp: so for what advantage? 18:40 < svenl> fjp: i know g-i doesn't work on prep. 18:41 <+fjp> maks: Choice mostly. 18:41 < svenl> fjp, h01ger: maybe post beta3, we could imagine a two-step g-i thingy, where the additional code is not part of the ramdisk, but pulled in later on. 18:42 < zinosat> h01ger, if you plan to look at the g-i crash on ppc ping me next week 18:42 < bubulle_> OK, we're running out of topic right now..:-) 18:42 * fjp feels g-i on oldworld is probably low priority 18:42 < bubulle_> this is probably "Ports need testing!" 18:42 < h01ger> zinosat, i doubt i'll have time next week (before the weekend). and if, i'll look into general oldworld issues first 18:43 -!- bubulle_ changed the topic of #debian-boot to: D-I Meeting in progress - Beta 3 release - Ports need testing! 18:43 < svenl> fjp: agreed 18:43 <+fjp> Well, all we can do is ask... 18:43 < zinosat> h01ger, np 18:43 < bubulle_> fjp: which ports do you think are currently loosely tested? 18:43 <+fjp> h01ger: Agree that is prio. 18:43 < waldi> fjp: send a mail to d-d-a? 18:44 <+fjp> i386, amd64 (less), s/390 (good) 18:44 <+fjp> Don't know about others. 18:44 < svenl> i will do tests on 64bit apple (Xserve G5), pegasos, and PReP, and get a remote test done on IBM JS21 blades and power5 p505, and maybe on the quad power5 of augsbourg. 18:44 <+fjp> Will test sparc and probably hppa myself soonish 18:44 < bubulle_> alpha? 18:44 < bubulle_> m68k? 18:44 * joeyh hopes to get the dilab running again in a week or so, taggart got it a replacement switch 18:44 <+fjp> waldi: Yes, good idea. 18:44 < svenl> this leaves 32bit powermac, and oldworld, and 32bit IBM chrp/rs6k, apus is currently not supported. 18:45 <+fjp> svenl: Good. 18:45 * zinosat needs to go out: bye everyone 18:45 < h01ger> svenl, 32bit powermac=newworld? 18:45 < waldi> h01ger: yes 18:45 < svenl> h01ger: yeah, even though it rejoined the not-produced-anymore arches :) 18:46 * h01ger might be able to do this next weekend.. 18:46 < maks> jay estabrook from hp tried several alphas and had troubles ->http://lists.debian.org/debian-alpha/2006/06/msg00034.html 18:47 <+fjp> Hopefully vorlon can put some time into alpha. 18:47 < bubulle_> fjp: agree with waldi's suggestion to a mail in d-d-a for ports testing? 18:47 <+fjp> [18:44:56] <fjp> waldi: Yes, good idea. 18:47 < bubulle_> sorry 18:47 < bubulle_> OK, let's move if you don't mind 18:48 -!- bubulle_ changed the topic of #debian-boot to: D-I Meeting in progress - Beta 3 release -Known issues not listed on overview page? 18:48 < bubulle_> I guess this is an opened question by fjp. Who's aware of such things? 18:48 <+fjp> Mail to d-boot is prefered though. h01ger's overview was a nice example. 18:49 <+fjp> If nothing, we can move on. 18:49 < bubulle_> well... 18:49 < h01ger> from there: miboot-floppies cannot be part of beta3. but i'd like to mention that somewhere... 18:49 < h01ger> atm the beta2 floppies link to non-working ones.. 18:49 < bubulle_> what about the work to make floppy builds work again? 18:50 <+fjp> h01ger: I'll ask Yoe to build those images too, just like Colin did. 18:50 < joeyh> IMHO we should stop building non-miboot floppies that don't work. It's just cruel 18:50 < h01ger> joeyh, ack 18:50 < svenl> bubulle_: needs someone to followup and coordinate. its on good way. 18:50 < h01ger> colin has working builds, just at a slightly different url... 18:50 < waldi> YEAH! 18:50 < Alphix> BAH! 18:50 < bubulle_> waldi is ack online now 18:50 <+fjp> joeyh: Could you look into ppc floppy size with h01ger? 18:51 < joeyh> guess so 18:51 <+fjp> AIUI net-drivers is too big currently. 18:51 < bubulle_> ok, let's move.... 18:51 < h01ger> yup 18:51 < maks> i've an klibc that adds mknod (easy) need to look into an load_initrd for floppy 18:51 -!- bubulle_ changed the topic of #debian-boot to: D-I Meeting in progress - ppc64 cross||native installer 18:51 <+fjp> Hopefully Colin will have a bit more time starting next week too. 18:51 < bubulle_> most issues are detailed on http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Meetings 18:52 * Alphix needs to go.... 18:52 < bubulle_> Alphix: thanks for participating... 18:52 < maks> ppc64 was already discussed afair 2 meeting ago 18:52 < svenl> i have something to say about the ppc64 port. 18:52 < maks> with not much enthusiasm 18:52 < svenl> I believe, as i said on list, that the best solution on this is to do the cross-install thingy. 18:53 <+fjp> svenl: I think your view is well known from your list postings. 18:53 < svenl> multiarch for etch is as good as dead, and so ppc64 effort may be worthwhile to consider until we have multirch-post-etch. 18:53 < svenl> but doing a 64bit installer doesn't bring anything. 18:53 <+fjp> The main question for us is if there is any harm in supporting it with the proposed conditions I listed in the wiki. 18:54 <+fjp> joeyh: ? 18:54 < bubulle_> I think that the general question is what's under "proposed conditions" on the meeting agenda 18:54 < joeyh> I agree with those conditions 18:54 < svenl> as afor the patches, the multiaech effort will use powerpc64. 18:54 < bubulle_> yikes, twinned brains again 18:54 <+fjp> joeyh: So, allow it based on those conditions? 18:55 < bubulle_> seems to be some kind of general consensus 18:55 <+fjp> I don't see much harm in it myself. 18:55 * joeyh neither 18:55 < svenl> but i would mention an effort to do the cross-install thingy post-beta3, if possible. 18:55 < svenl> me neither, the only possible harm is not going for the real solutions afterward :) 18:55 < bubulle_> svenl: does such effort follow the "proposed conditions"? 18:56 <+fjp> svenl: I agree that it does not bring anything for Debian as a whole, but that does not mean that we need to deny Andreas' request. He's been very friendly about it. 18:56 <+fjp> svenl: I think that will probably be post-Etch. Preparations can start earlier of course. 18:57 < svenl> fjp: well, the trouble i have with Andreas, is that he does his one-man-thingy, approaches DDs with official 64bit porter hat, but was not present when asked to participate in a multiarch effort. 18:57 < bubulle_> move to next topic...seems to be a good occasion...:-) 18:57 <+fjp> Yep. 18:57 -!- bubulle_ changed the topic of #debian-boot to: D-I Meeting in progress - Post-Beta3 development 18:57 -!- bubulle_ changed the topic of #debian-boot to: D-I Meeting in progress - Post-Beta3 development - Removal of 2.4 kernel support 18:58 < waldi> just do it *hide* 18:58 < maks> great 18:58 < svenl> post-beta3, can i add the ibm power stuff here, even though it is not on the agenda ? As well as some plans with a screen udeb ? at the end of the topics, if there is time ? 18:58 < bubulle_> svenl: yep, after the other topics please 18:58 < h01ger> what other "options" than "just do it" are there? :) 18:59 < bubulle_> so, so we announce to the whole world that we will do it after beta3? 18:59 < svenl> 2.4 kernel. I think it is sane to say that the kernel team will not support any 2.4 kernel for etch, and even h0lger's effort in that direction didn't go very far. 18:59 <+fjp> That's probably the main issue. We need to get all ports still using 2.4 to fully switch ASAP. 18:59 < svenl> indeed. 18:59 <+fjp> Yes, we will announce that. 18:59 < waldi> fjp: which of them uses 2.4? 18:59 < svenl> m68k may need 2.2/2.4 on some subarches. 18:59 <+fjp> mipsen and arm and m68k 18:59 < svenl> x86 floppies also, i think ? 19:00 < bubulle_> fjp: anyway, if we drop support for 2.4 and ports do not switch, they disqualify themselves for the release, right? 19:00 < waldi> svenl: x86 is clean I think 19:00 <+fjp> m68k have already promised to fork if needed and keep support outside trunk 19:00 <+fjp> bubulle_: As I understand it, yes. 19:01 < svenl> bubulle_: issues are not as clean, no arch is fully non-2.6 compatible, only certain subarches are affected. 19:01 <+fjp> For i386 main issue is floppies, but hopefully ninou's work will be usable soon. 19:01 < waldi> fjp: they are too large? 19:01 < bubulle_> yep 19:01 < h01ger> x86 has no boot+root floppies built?!: http://people.debian.org/~joeyh/d-i/images/daily/floppy/ is almost empty.. and no build log either... :( 19:01 < joeyh> 2.4 floppies are also too large and so disabled already 19:01 < waldi> sparc also references 2.4 19:01 < h01ger> ah 19:02 <+fjp> sparc will drop 2.4 before Beta3 19:02 < maks> klibc work for boot floppies is on the way 19:02 < waldi> fjp: OK 19:02 < maks> ninou has inofficial ones irc 19:02 < bubulle_> well, in short, saying that we drop support for 2.4 is kind of an ultimatum...but I think this is one that's worth it 19:02 < maks> klibc has not yet the separete bin for load_ramdisk thing 19:02 < waldi> bubulle_: yep, please do 19:02 < svenl> does this mean we remove the 2.4 kernel .udebs thingies from the svn repo ? 19:02 < bubulle_> especially if the release team shares that opinion 19:03 <+fjp> One thing we will need to decide is how much we want to clean up components like hw-detect. 19:03 <+fjp> We'll need to discuss that soon after Beta3. 19:03 < waldi> bubulle_: i thought they will follow the kernel team which dropped support some time ago 19:03 < svenl> fjp: i think the previous decision was to leave 2.4 support in for innoficial builds, until etch is released. 19:03 < bubulle_> fjp: I would say that we coul dbe short on time to clean them up but that shouldn't harm that much... 19:03 < svenl> fjp: doing otherwise may make porters rethink their support. 19:03 * h01ger also thinks an ultimatum is worth it. otherwise we might end up with etch with 2.4.27 another time... 19:04 < maks> nah postetch glibc won't support 2.4 19:04 < bubulle_> we will be the Bad Boys...:) 19:04 < svenl> h01ger: agreed. 19:04 <+fjp> IMO we need to drop 2.4 install support in first RC. What others do unofficially is their choice. 19:04 < bubulle_> well, it seems that writing that "the whole D-I team has decided to drop support for 2.4" after beta"? ie *for Etchê would be true 19:05 <+fjp> waldi: That means 2.4 kernel images would need to stay available untill after d-i RC1. 19:05 < svenl> fjp: agreed, but cleanup will break even unofficial builds. 19:05 < waldi> bubulle_: hmm, the m68k people are no part of the d-i team? 19:05 < waldi> fjp: yep 19:05 < svenl> bubulle_: the kernel team has said so twice or so in the past already :) 19:05 -!- bubulle_ changed the topic of #debian-boot to: D-I Meeting in progress - Post-Beta3 development - Persistent device naming 19:05 <+fjp> waldi: m68k people are agreed on that too 19:05 < waldi> fjp: okay 19:06 <+fjp> We seem to have persistent device naming for network devices. 19:06 < waldi> fjp: yes, except s390 19:06 <+fjp> Except for open question from joeyh. 19:06 <+fjp> joeyh: Did you look into that further? 19:07 <+fjp> Propagation from d-i to installed system> 19:07 < joeyh> oh yeah on whether d-i udev propigates the names to installed udev? 19:07 < joeyh> no, I have not but I don't see what the mechanism would be for it happening 19:07 < waldi> fjp: we should drop the devfs rules from udev 19:07 <+fjp> waldi: Do you know where the info is stored? 19:08 < waldi> fjp: /etc/udev/rules.d/z25* 19:08 <+fjp> Hmm. Does udev save previously assigned names there? 19:08 < joeyh> yes 19:08 < waldi> yes 19:08 < maks> initramfs picks /etc/udev 19:09 <+fjp> So we probably need to let post-base-installer.d copy that to installed system? 19:09 < waldi> yes 19:09 < waldi> just make the udev udeb do that 19:10 <+fjp> maybe it already does... 19:10 < maks> need to go, will read backlog later. 19:11 < joeyh> actually, I think udev-udeb is also missing /lib/udev/write_net_rules 19:11 < waldi> uh 19:11 < joeyh> and write_cd_rules 19:11 < waldi> that have to be fixed 19:12 < bubulle_> OK, let's move...we have 2-3 more topics yet 19:12 -!- bubulle_ changed the topic of #debian-boot to: D-I Meeting in progress - Post-Beta3 development - Supplemental repository support for udebs 19:12 < waldi> not yet working 19:12 < bubulle_> the next topic will be cancelled: we dealt with it already, mostly 19:12 < waldi> we may do the libdi abi bump shortly after beta3 19:12 < bubulle_> waldi: will this bea ready for RC1? 19:12 < joeyh> and /lib/udev/hotplug.functions.. 19:12 < svenl> waldi: what is needed yet ? 19:12 < waldi> bubulle_: hope so 19:13 < joeyh> is the code written somewhere already? 19:13 <+fjp> waldi: Not sure about dropping devfs as too much still uses that. Could be part of "2.4 cleanup" though but would probably prevent having support for installing Sarge. 19:13 < waldi> fjp: not really. partman does not need it 19:14 <+fjp> A lot (bootloader installers etc) assumes it 19:14 < bubulle_> ? Nothing more on the topic? 19:14 <+fjp> Persistent device naming for sdisks seems stalled 19:14 < waldi> bubulle_: yep 19:14 <+fjp> I don't really have a good feeling about that currently. 19:14 < waldi> sdisks? 19:15 <+fjp> disks 19:15 < waldi> partman needs it, needs to save the information 19:15 < waldi> the bootloader installers can use the information and should have no need for the devfs names 19:15 <+fjp> Why is it an issue for partman? Would say it's more an fstab and bootloader issue. 19:16 < svenl> I have been doing serial installs on IBM powerpc64 bit hardware. There are some issues broken there, and i will submit patches on monday. The one point i saw that was really problematic, was the absense of a second console, so i wondered if post beta3, a screen .udeb could be possible. Was this already investigated in the past and rejected or something ? 19:16 * joeyh needs to run, see you 19:16 < waldi> fjp: it knows the information and throws it away 19:16 < waldi> fjp: so the bootloaders needs to detect them again 19:17 <+fjp> I've looked in /dev/disks, but info there looks very incomplete to me. IMO it will at least be a problem for devices that don't have sysfs support yet. 19:17 < waldi> fjp: scsi, ide, dasd have them 19:17 < waldi> what is missing? 19:17 < waldi> md needs some fixing 19:17 <+fjp> sbus 19:17 <+fjp> ? 19:18 < waldi> no proper sysfs support or missing support in udev? 19:18 < waldi> i think we should stop 19:18 <+fjp> I think my old megaraid scsi is missing. 19:18 <+fjp> Yes. 19:18 <+fjp> As I said, I don't have a really good feeling about it. 19:19 < bubulle_> OK....all this needs further discussion post-meeting or in the list 19:19 < bubulle_> I'll mention the questions of our RM about presistent naming for disks 19:19 < bubulle_> svenl: you have a GO for your additionnal topics 19:19 < waldi> (s390 will be glad to have it) 19:20 < svenl> I have been doing serial installs on IBM powerpc64 bit hardware. There are some issues broken there, and i will submit patches on monday. The one point i saw that was really problematic, was the absense of a second console, so i wondered if post beta3, a screen .udeb could be possible. Was this already investigated in the past and rejected or something ? 19:20 < svenl> (sorry for earlier). 19:20 <+fjp> svenl: A screen udeb on same basis as open-ssh-client udeb sounds like a nice option. 19:20 < svenl> fjp: can you give more details ? 19:21 < bubulle_> svenl: I don't remember about discussions about this in the past 19:21 <+fjp> Not now and here. But you know how open-ssh-client works, right? 19:21 < bubulle_> my first impression is, yes, that this sounds like an interesting feature to have 19:21 < svenl> i have some vague memory of someone already proposing it a couple of years a go. 19:21 <+fjp> I'm not sure why you'd really need screen if you already have ssh though. 19:22 < bubulle_> svenl: mymemory may be wrong, anyway..:) 19:22 < svenl> fjp: yeah, but i don't see how it could be similar. 19:22 <+fjp> svenl: Send mail to list with how you think it would work... 19:22 < svenl> fjp: to access the log and consoles before network is up, which is why i don't think the ssh analogy is ok, but i may misunderstand. 19:23 < bubulle_> svenl also mentioned me that it's too bad not having translations during serial installs 19:23 < svenl> fjp: ok, or we can discuss post-meeting here. 19:23 <+fjp> Please explain how screen would help there. /me does not understand that yet. 19:23 < svenl> actually, the problem is that at least in appareance, a serial install forces a english localization. 19:23 <+fjp> And we already have shell access from the menu... 19:24 < h01ger> arent that 2 topics? 19:24 < bubulle_> h01ger: yes, they are 19:24 < svenl> fjp: screen allows to have multiple consoles, so you put it in the ramdisk (or a special serial/netboot ramdisk), and each virtual console is in one separate screen thingy. 19:24 < svenl> and you can switch between them with screen hotkeys. 19:24 < bubulle_> h01ger: seems that the screen topic needs elaboration...and I didn't want to forget mentioning the localization issue 19:25 <+fjp> svenl: You'd need very good arguments to add it to initrd though. 19:25 < svenl> fjp: just add it to a new standalone netboot/serial ramdisk should cause no harm. none i can see at least. 19:25 < bubulle_> imho, all this is worth list discussion anyway 19:26 < waldi> yes 19:26 < bubulle_> I suggest we officially conclude the meeting now....which does not prevent discussions to go on 19:26 < svenl> indeed, i am fine to continue on list. 19:28 < bubulle_> as a side note, and sharing my personal feelings, I'd like to mention that I have been very happy to see svenl participate in this meeting. I sincerely hope this is the beginning of a new era after a difficult period and that personal difficulties being put aside are a good way to continue collaboration 19:28 < bubulle_> and if someone can restore the tocpi, please do so..:-) 19:29 -!- h01ger changed the topic of #debian-boot to: Next D-I team meeting July xxth xx:00UTC http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Meetings | Debian installer development channel - http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer | If nobody answers, try debian-boot@lists.debian.org | status of today's builds: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Today 19:29 -!- waldi changed the topic of #debian-boot to: Debian installer development channel - http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer | If nobody answers, try debian-boot@lists.debian.org | status of today's builds: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianInstaller/Today --
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