Re: dicussion about patches ... ignoring patches make motivation to provide them fall
On Sun, Mar 19, 2006 at 12:44:05PM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
>
> [Sven Luther]
> > I am not saying that there needs to be an immediate response, or all
> > patches need to be applied, but i believe that it is elementary
> > politeness from a package maintainer, to at least aknowledge a patch
> > or bug report when it is submitted.
>
> I believe you are wrong. If you are right, then I am a very impolite
> maintainer, as I have too many packages with too many bugs to look
> after, so I do not manage to look at, nor acknowledge and comment on,
> all the reported bugs against them, nor evaluate or commit the patches
> provided. But I try my best, and fail to see why your assumption that
> my behavior is impolite can in any way be correct.
Ok, possible. my opinion on this may be colored by getting explained during an
hour why the patch should not be applied :)
Still, this is a real problem, as it affects the quality of debian, which is
why i think that team-maintainership or backup maintainers is the real issue.
That said, the polite thing to do would be to say in the bug report that you
are too busy, in order for the submitter to know about it, and not a
resounding silence as is often the case.
> > As for the bug reporter, and the patch submitter, being ignored
> > for a long time when it is clear there is activity, is a proof
> > that his work in searching for the bug, and in trying (even if
> > clumsily) to find a patch is wasted time, and motivation to do so
> > in the future will fall.
>
> Well, I believe a bug reporter and patch submitter is better off if
> she accepts the rewarding thoughts of a job well done, and not waste
> time waiting for others to acknowledge it too. Working on free
> software need to be self motivated, or one will end up very frustrated
> as there is almost no external rewards.
err. i don't believe a work well done is one that is moldering in the BTS and
will never be applied. It is frustrating, because you have done all you can,
and the rest is not in your hands anymore.
> All we can do is to make sure the bugs we find and the patches we
> create are published and easy to find for the others that work on the
> same package and find the same problem, and then work with the
> upstream developers and distribution maintainers to get them to look
> at the issue. Expecting this to happen by itself after submitting an
> email without careful attention from the bug reporter or patch writer
> is not going to cause anything but grief and frustration.
This may be, but it doesn't fall in the category where the package maintainer
is simply ignoring the issue. Mmm, i am probably repeating myself again :)
> I've sent hundreds, perhaps even thousands, of patches to developers
> and maintainers, and had lots of them ignored for a long time. There
> is no point for me to accuse the developers and maintainers of
> anything but having other priorities than me and having other things
> to spend time on. The only way to try to get them to look at "my"
> issue is by talking to them and attract their attention to the issue.
Well, as a maintainer, i try to always respond to bug reports, with or without
patch. It is not easy, but it is the least we can do. A simple few lines
saying you don't have time is enough, and will probably prompt others seeing
the bug to help you out.
> And as the lead developer of debian-edu, a contributing member of
> debian-gis and debian-java, a long time contributor of
> debian-installer and a vocal proponent of working in groups within
> debian, I believe I have some experience to back my claim that my
> approach work and lower the frustration level of working on free
> software. Yes, it is still a bit frustrating to see patches submitted
> to BTS being ignored for years, but at least I know that the
> responsivility for this is on my end, not having spend enough time
> working with the developer and maintainer to get him to give the task
> enough priority. It does no good to try to blame anyone else but
> myself for this, and I recommend the rest of you to place the blame
> there as well. :)
Err. So, ... This is exactly what i am saying. it is furstrating to the
submitter, who will probably next time say, heck, why should i bother, and
this is a loss to the project.
Going upstream is one possibility, but not always possible, particularly for
debian only stuff.
Friendly,
Sven Luther
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