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Re: [ad-hominem construct deleted]

* Sami Haahtinen <ressu@ressukka.net> [2006-01-14 18:20]:
> I can understand that a part of the people behind Debian feel hostile
> against Ubuntu because it's succeeding in something that Debian was
> trying to achieve.

 It's not about succeeding. It's about false statements all the time,
like "Every Debian developer is also an Ubuntu developer."  If I were I
would know. And they are recompiling all my packages, so you can't even
say that they are using my packages directly.

 It's also about false statements like "We sync our packages to Debian
regularly," because that simply doesn't happen for quite a lot of us,
otherwise all these heated discussions wouldn't happen.

 These two very statements are on the very page that were linked in this
very misguided mail this fuss is all about.

> But what i can't understand is that people behind Ubuntu are trying to
> reach out and build a bridge between the people in Debian and some
> people are intentionally trying to burn them.

 I can only speak for myself (like everyone anyway, but it seems to be
mentioned), I haven't noticed anyone reaching me, so I hadn't had any
chance to burn anyone. The only contact with respect to Ubuntu was a
user disappointed that one of my packages in Debian had a fix that the
one in Ubuntu hadn't... for several weeks. All I could do is thank him
for appreciating my work but that it's out of my hands to fix it for
Ubuntu because I never was notified about that it's included there, and
wouldn't know at all who to contact therefore.

> They are really investing time on the co-operation,

 If they were, why would there be so much fuss about it? Again, speaking
for myself, I haven't noticed such a thing for myself, and there
wouldn't be the need for utnubu if there were, don't you think so?

> they are creating tools to help this. What are the Debian people
> doing, they are bitching about Ubuntu people not putting their backs
> in to it.

 Why should I pull something from Ubuntu? And find most of the time that
there isn't anything to pull? Why does it work for Debian that Debian
notifies its Upstream Developers, but not for Ubuntu to notify its
Upstream Developers, which in this case is Debian?

> I don't mean that there is no effort on Debian side either, but the
> visible effort (mostly because stunts like this) is mostly on the
> burning side.

 And not even that seems to make them show that there is something going
wrong. So what  *shrugs*

> It takes less effort to bitch and moan than to work together, maybe
> that's the reason.

 I ask you: Why should I try to work together with someone who didn't
had at least the sign of coursey to notify people they base their work
on about what they are doing, or at least _that_ they are doing it? If I
don't know that they are doing it, why should I get the idea about that
it might be a good idea to work with them? I know what of my packages
are in Debian, and everyone can get a list quite easily through several
different interfaces. In the mail this fuss is all about there is only
one huge list which does have only package names, no maintainer, no
nothing that allowes for easy usage of that list. It might be useful for
people maintaining one single package, but for people with 10 or more
it's getting annoying to have to pull the data out from there....

 So long,
"Die Angabe des vollständigen Realnamens erleichtert die Kommunikation
im Usenet ungemein, man kann sich dann nämlich auf die Inhalte der
Postings konzentrieren und muß nicht über Sinn/Unsinn von Pseudonymen
o.ä. diskutieren." (Ingo Ließegang, de.newusers.questions, 6.10.1999)

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