On Fri, Dec 09, 2005 at 05:48:13PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
> There is absolutely zero documentation on how the buildd network works.
If the documentation's insufficient, ask politely for help.
buildd.debian.org points you at wanna-build and its svn repo, which has
some reasonably extensive READMEs as well as all the source.
> You know, the things you have to be aware of if you want to give a hand.
$ lynx -dump http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/other/all.html |
> grep FTBFS | wc
417 4195 31201
> > I don't really understand the viewpoint that says fixing the problem
> > isn't a "response" to pointing out a problem.
> It isn't a response, because a problem you report isn't really fixed
> until you've been warned it has been fixed.
*shrug* Sure, there are better possible responses. At some point you have
to accept that resolving your uncertanties isn't as important as other
things people could be doing. If you actually want to get that better
result, the way your going about advocating for it is *precisely* wrong.
> Sorry, but it's simply not possible. When you don't have the required
> credentials, you can't do anything with the buildd network. When you
> don't know personally its internals, which are not documented, you don't
> even know where to start. I don't believe it's that easy to dig into
> them.
I've never run a buildd; I've never invoked sbuild; I don't think I have
login access on any buildds, though I might be wrong.
That hasn't stopped me getting access to the w-b groups on buildd.d.o
(which was to enable britney to do better stats), and I even got to sign
my first build log the other day to test the security stuff I've been
working on. My strategy for this is to work around not having access,
recognise other people have different priorities to me and that they're
only going to do what I want when our priorities match, and be polite
about it all.
I think it says something when that strategy, which afaics has proven
successful repeatedly, is dismissed as "too hard".
> Then, will someone explain what happened to get things fixed? You seem
> to be fairly affirmative about this, so you probably know.
There were some private conversations that, AIUI, it'd be "unethical and
possibly illegal" for me to quote, and I doubt you'd accept any summary I
might make. The DPL has the same information I do, though, as a response
to his querying what was going on, and I believe his position is "with
a single elected DPL, there is still someplace for "the buck to stop",
as a U.S. idiom puts it.", so maybe it's worth asking him.
> It could save a lot of time later,
> if people ask things correctly and to the right person instead of
> complaining and trolling in this mailing list.
If you follow the advice above, you won't have any problems.
> Oh right, there is no problem with waiting for 2 months for a keyring
> update.
An update for a key that was confiscated as part of a police raid months
beforehand? I don't think there's a really major problem, no.
> Haven't you noticed
> that while there can be obnoxious persons, most people start to complain
> only when things become really unbearable?
No, I haven't noticed that at all.
Well, let me rephrase. I've noticed most people don't start to complain
at all, whether things are bearable or not. Most of the complaints,
meanwhile, are from people who'll complain no matter what (more or less),
and don't give a damn whether their complaints are effective or not.
Obviously, YMMV.
Cheers,
aj
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