[Date Prev][Date Next] [Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

Re: buildd administration

Le vendredi 09 décembre 2005 à 12:07 +1000, Anthony Towns a écrit :
> That's non-sensical. Everything the buildds do is logged pretty much
> immediately onto http://buildd.debian.org/, which also provides long
> running statistics on how effective the buildds are, and even a schedule
> of what the buildds will be working on next.

There is absolutely zero documentation on how the buildd network works.
You know, the things you have to be aware of if you want to give a hand.

> > When things go wrong, there is no useful contact address for the buildd 
> > maintainers or admins. 
> Well, the question is "are things wrong" ? AFAICS, they aren't -- and
> when I suggested building a webpage tracking the complaints, the only
> response was "ha, what a waste of time".
> I don't really understand the viewpoint that says fixing the problem
> isn't a "response" to pointing out a problem.

It isn't a response, because a problem you report isn't really fixed
until you've been warned it has been fixed. How do you know when you can
rely on the problem being fixed? How do you know whether the problem has
just vanished - meaning in can appear again - or has been dealt with?
How do you know whether your request has just been throwned to /dev/null
or delayed for a few days? I have to wonder all these things every time
I send an email to *@buildd.debian.org.

> > Meanwhile, buildd.debian.org *still* isn't using Ingo Juergesmann's 
> Ingo's burnt a fair number of bridges wrt buildd issues; I'm sorry,
> but I don't really care if volunteers decline to work with people who're
> obnoxious and rude.

Why would it make his work not good for our use? The buildd.net software
is obviously much superior to buildd.debian.org, but it hasn't been
integrated; the fact his author is Ingo Juergesmann shouldn't matter.

> That's not a productive attitude. If they don't have time to answer
> questions, they almost certainly don't have time to ask for help,
> either. When that cirucmstance has arisen, the only way out is for others
> to work out what help's actually needed and wanted and to provide it.
> That's kinda hard, but no one promised taking over the world would
> be easy.

Sorry, but it's simply not possible. When you don't have the required
credentials, you can't do anything with the buildd network. When you
don't know personally its internals, which are not documented, you don't
even know where to start. I don't believe it's that easy to dig into

> > Indeed, complaining on debian-devel appears to get results, doesn't it?
> No, it doesn't.
> > At least, that's the conclusion that a rational outside observer would come 
> > to.
> No, it's the conclusion a simplistic outside observer would come to,
> who failed to consider the possibility that the results may have come
> due to independent processes in spite of the hysterical complaints
> on debian-devel.

Then, will someone explain what happened to get things fixed? You seem
to be fairly affirmative about this, so you probably know. Maybe you can
take a few minutes of your precious time to explain what was done and by
whom to the pitiful other developers. It could save a lot of time later,
if people ask things correctly and to the right person instead of
complaining and trolling in this mailing list.

> It may be rational to note that that conclusion is being irrationally
> drawn, and start responding to hysterical complaints by delaying
> activities that'd otherwise be undertaken, of course. I'm idealistic
> enough to dislike that conclusion, but, well *shrug*.

Oh right, there is no problem with waiting for 2 months for a keyring
update. "Tout va très bien, Madame la marquise." Haven't you noticed
that while there can be obnoxious persons, most people start to complain
only when things become really unbearable? And believe me or not, but
the way some buildd administrators are treating email requests is not
something acceptable, even for volunteers.
 .''`.           Josselin Mouette        /\./\
: :' :           josselin.mouette@ens-lyon.org
`. `'                        joss@debian.org
   `-  Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom

Reply to: