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Re: buildd administration

On Thu, Dec 08, 2005 at 04:52:31PM -0500, Nathanael Nerode wrote:
> Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
> > > Perhaps it is time for a replacement buildd network, and a new
> > > delegation from the DPL for keyring maintenence?
> Anthony Towns wrote:
> > Whatever for, exactly?
> Transparency.

That's non-sensical. Everything the buildds do is logged pretty much
immediately onto http://buildd.debian.org/, which also provides long
running statistics on how effective the buildds are, and even a schedule
of what the buildds will be working on next.

> When things go wrong, there is no useful contact address for the buildd 
> maintainers or admins. 

Well, the question is "are things wrong" ? AFAICS, they aren't -- and
when I suggested building a webpage tracking the complaints, the only
response was "ha, what a waste of time".

I don't really understand the viewpoint that says fixing the problem
isn't a "response" to pointing out a problem.

> >The buildd network's working better today than
> >it has since woody released, IMO.
> Yes.  I wonder why?  

It started working well in the same week we did the etch requalification

> There's no way to tell what's changed, who's done it, or 
> when it will stop being true.

TTBOMK, porters started taking their ports more seriously.

> Meanwhile, buildd.debian.org *still* isn't using Ingo Juergesmann's 

Ingo's burnt a fair number of bridges wrt buildd issues; I'm sorry,
but I don't really care if volunteers decline to work with people who're
obnoxious and rude.

> To respond preemptively to one expected reply: "I don't have time to answer 
> these questions" is not a reasonable excuse, because if they don't have time, 
> they need to ask for help.

That's not a productive attitude. If they don't have time to answer
questions, they almost certainly don't have time to ask for help,
either. When that cirucmstance has arisen, the only way out is for others
to work out what help's actually needed and wanted and to provide it.
That's kinda hard, but no one promised taking over the world would
be easy.

> >I also see the keyring's been updated 
> >earlier this week, including both a replacement key for Horms from late
> >last month, and Chip's requested updates.
> Indeed, complaining on debian-devel appears to get results, doesn't it?

No, it doesn't.

> At least, that's the conclusion that a rational outside observer would come 
> to.

No, it's the conclusion a simplistic outside observer would come to,
who failed to consider the possibility that the results may have come
due to independent processes in spite of the hysterical complaints
on debian-devel.

It may be rational to note that that conclusion is being irrationally
drawn, and start responding to hysterical complaints by delaying
activities that'd otherwise be undertaken, of course. I'm idealistic
enough to dislike that conclusion, but, well *shrug*.


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