Jose Carlos Garcia Sogo <jsogo@debian.org> writes:
> El dom, 12-12-2004 a las 04:52 +0100, Goswin von Brederlow escribió:
>> Wouter Verhelst <wouter@debian.org> writes:
>>
>> > On Sun, Dec 12, 2004 at 12:34:10AM +0100, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
>> >> Yes. Once you eliminate the dependency on the non-free file the driver
>> >> becomes suitable for main.
>> >
>> > The driver does not have /any/ dependency on a non-free file. It will
>> > function perfectly without the non-free file.
>> >
>> > The device, that's a different story; but Debian is not in the business
>> > of distributing hardware, so there is no 'Depends:' header for that bit
>> > of the problem.
>>
>> We have to disagree on that then.
>>
>> I think something like "Failure: firmware not loaded" or "Failure:
>> path/firmware: No such file or directory" counts as a dependency.
>
> But you will get basically the same error if you hax0red your Flash
> when trying to upgrade the firmware in the device.
>
>> I
>> would want apt-get to pull in the firmware deb when I install the
>> driver deb.
>
> Yes, and me too. But you usually can't do that even with having a
> package in non-free for doing that or using a downloader, as
> manufacturer is asking to click-through before downloading anything (see
> ipw2100 driver). So basically you cannot state that dependency... it
> becomes the same: you need to have firmware around (in device or in a
> file) and user need to perform some actions to accomplish that.
Make a download script that creates a deb and dpkg -i it. The driver
deb can then depend on that (to be created) deb.
This is just like other contrib/non-free debs that depend on things
outside Debian.
> Of course I can agree with you that for drivers that are not part of
> the kernel being in contrib is not bad (as forementioned ipw2100). But
> slicing kernel and moving most of it to contrib because of this is bad.
Nobody talks about removing drivers from the kernel to contrib.
> Kernel works without that drivers, and those have still a feature though
> not having the firmware: they allow you to detect your hardware (by
> using hotplug or something like that). After that the hadware probably
> will be nonfuctional, but we are not in worse state than in any other
> commercial OS where here you are asked to load the firmware from
> hardware vendor CD. This is not optimal, but not being able to see what
> you needs and what hardware hurts our users more, IMHO. And, after all,
> we are not distributing any piece of non-free software, which is what
> should concern us.
Drivers inside the kernel need only suggest the firmware since for most
people the kernel is still fully functional even without the firmware.
> Cheers,
MfG
Goswin