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Re: -= PROPOSAL =- Release sarge with amd64

Martin Michlmayr - Debian Project Leader said:

> "Job offers" were made, but it doesn't help when nobody volunteers.
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2003/05/msg00005.html

Ok, one "job offer" - more than one year old.

>> > soon).  In any case, we need people who actually volunteer and who
>> > approach the problem the right way.  I've seen quite a few offers left
>> Define the "right way".
> There is no description and it's mostly tacit knowledge anyway (i.e.
> hard to define; you know how to use a bike but can you describe it in
> words?).  Anyway, this is nothing which is specific to Debian - I see
> it in may Free Software projects.  From my experience, people who're
> new to a project and who start by introducing themselves on a mailing
> list and ask what they can do actually never end up contributing.

Well, I made different experiences.
People are mostly more interested in contributing and learning if you
guide them during real work. Sure, they must show some serious interest in
that task. A simple "here i am, what can i do?" is not enough.
But with regards to your bicycle example: a child will not learn riding
bike, when you just tell it: "look, there's a bike, there's a somewhere
some howtos.. .have fun!" Instead you'll need to guide it while it sits on
the bike, you'll need to catch it, if it might fall, etc.

> People who insult people are less likely to get help and useful
> responses.  People who just do great work and don't spend much time
> talking about it usually end up in higher positions (one example:
> Colin Watson).  I'm sure there are many other things...

Another example: Joey.
But OTOH Joey *can* communicate, even if he's loaded and loaded over with
work, even if it's just a short "Sorry, I'm busy, write me an email..."
*That's* the way how higher positioned people should interact with others,
not the silent ignorance and arrogance of Troup & Murray.

>> > unanswered because they were made in a suboptimal way.  As I argued in
>> Erm, interesting... It's always been said that Debian is no company but
>> a collective effort by volunteers, but this sounds now as if you want a
>> professional job application?
> No, but volunteering in Free Software projects follows certain rules
> as well.  If you don't follow them, you're less likely to success in
> our community.

And if the community (of developers) don't follow what the users demand,
it will fail as well, doesn't it?

>> ... and wonder why your patches won't get included and you never receive
>> a mail why it was rejected....
> Have you actually tried submitting a patch to katie or are you just
> rambling about your past bad experience with other stuff?

You know as well as I do, that I'm no programmer and thus don't supply
patches. The above was a conclusion of experiences by me and others.

>> And how about the promised enhancements? The $arch@buildd.d.o lists? The
> It has been done a long time ago, just as I told you the last time you
> asked.

Yes, and back then you said you'll announce it "soon".
Yet, I don't know how those work, who are on them, what their purpose is,
etc. I'm quite confident that I know more than joe average DD, because I
know at least that they exists.

>> mediator for contacting Mr. Troup? Still you? Someone else? How is the
> Still me right now.

Good to know, although I would prefer someone else, because I think you
have better things to do than to play the mediator...

>> status on all those new buildds for arm, mips, mipsel & others?
> One ARM box has been shipped to Othmar Pasteka to replace debussy and
> another one is being set up as a buildd.  2 new R5K SGI Indys have
> been used for the last few months but they recently suffered disk
> problems.  mipsel has no problems keeping up as far as I know.

Let's have a look:

alpha_stats  : Needs-Build     :   291
amd64_stats  : Needs-Build     :     0
arm_stats    : Needs-Build     :    19
hppa_stats   : Needs-Build     :     1
i386_stats   : Needs-Build     :     0
ia64_stats   : Needs-Build     :     0
m68k_stats   : Needs-Build     :    52
mipsel_stats : Needs-Build     :     4
mips_stats   : Needs-Build     :    79
powerpc_stats: Needs-Build     :    25
s390_stats   : Needs-Build     :     0
sparc_stats  : Needs-Build     :    12

Alpha (broken, I know) has currently the most problems.

Regarding mips boxes, you still know that there are (soon) 4 r4k Indigo2s
available here (with enough disk space and ram) which can act as a buildd,
but are currently used only for random developers needing a mips box (f.e.
Disks are always a problem...

Ciao...        //
      Ingo   \X/

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