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Re: Debian needs more buildds. It has offers. They aren't being accepted.

On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 10:50:50AM +0100, Ingo Juergensmann wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 13, 2004 at 03:32:56PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > > However working around a lagged and unresponsive port is a lot 
> > > harder. 
> > None of the ports are significantly lagged at the moment.
> Other people do think different about that.

*shrug* Some people think drinking their own urine is a fun idea too;
that doesn't make it my problem. Constantly investigating people trying
to contribute something useful whenever someone gets a bee in their bonnet
about something. Because hey, decisions in Debian affect a lot of people,
and most of the time you're going to annoy someone. It's possible to try
just annoying the people who don't complain instead of trying to make the
best technical decisions, but that's not what I'm here for, personally.

> > > Apparently developers waiting for their packages or 
> > > depencies compiled should just stfu and wait indefinetly until
> > > the silent gods running the buildd have mercy upon you and compile
> > > the package.
> > They should help if they're able, work around the problem if they need
> > to, or do other things.
> And who judge who is able to help? And why? And what's the qualification of
> that person to be able to judge about others?

That's odd, I thought you were objecting to me insisting people have
qualifications (in particular being a developer) before judging others.

In any event, as I've already said, the people who do the judging are
the ones in charge of the area; and the reason why they're in charge
is because they have the most experience in the area and know about the
problems that tend to come, including the ones that aren't widely known
or documented. Their qualifications are their experience and knowledge.

> > They shouldn't stir up trouble when there simply
> > isn't a serious problem...
> Aha? Starting a discussion is "stir up trouble"? Interesting. 

Starting a discussion is one way of stirring up trouble, yes. There are
lots of ways of discussing something, calling on the DPL to remove people
is one of the one's that come under the "stirring up trouble" heading.

> > > Just to make myself clear, most buildd maintainers do a spectacular
> > > job, all my (mostly stupid) questions and requests have been handled
> > > timely.
> > ...as you point out.
> I believe you missed the little word "timely" now or ignore the qt-x11-free
> problem lately. Otherwise you should clarify your definition of "timely",
> please.

I have no idea what you're talking about. qt-x11-free 3.2.3-2 was uploaded
on Jan 22, and wasn't built on arm 'til Feb 2nd (11 days) and mipsel
'til the 8th (17 days). That's not a crisis, it's a delay. If you have
were a developer, and had a particular urgent need for them, you'd've
been able to build and upload them yourself.

> > One of the problems with not being a developer is that no matter how
> > helpful you are, you don't get any particular say in how Debian's
> > run. If your patches are rejected, or your suggestions are ignored,
> > it's just tough luck. That changes a little when you're a developer;
> > but Nathanael's got no one to blame for not being a developer but himself.
> Have you asked him about his reason not applying as NM? When not, how can
> you say he has no reason to blame? 

Because no one else can apply for him, and there's absolutely nothing
difficult about applying.

> Have you asked me why I'm not a DD,
> although many people tried to persuade me to become one?

*shrug* It's your choice not the be a DD, and I'm pretty sure I remember
seeing you throw a temper tantrum and refuse to join in the past. But hey,
that's your choice and your right. But if you make that choice, you need
to live with the consequences, one of which is that your opinion on what
Debian should or shouldn't do doesn't really count for much.

> > > I
> > > dont remember you saying so, thats not the point. However, I believe
> > > that is a good guideline, we shouldnt discriminate people just because
> > > they are not DD.
> > People who aren't developers have less experience working with Debian
> > almost by definition:
> Uh? That's obviously nonsense.

This from someone who doesn't know how to find out who's on the technical
ctte, or how to find the public archives of their mailing list? Oh well,
obviously another thing you don't know is the knowledge you're missing
out on.


Anthony Towns <aj@humbug.org.au> <http://azure.humbug.org.au/~aj/>
I don't speak for anyone save myself. GPG signed mail preferred.

             Linux.conf.au 2004 -- Because we could.
           http://conf.linux.org.au/ -- Jan 12-17, 2004

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