Re: Debian menu system update
On Mon, 2003-06-02 at 06:23, Bernhard R. Link wrote:
> > > Does this mean there simply is no such documentation?
> >
> > I think it's pretty clear how it should be done. Once we adopt the
> > system, we can point system administrators to the relevant file in our
> > documentation, and give pointers to the file format.
>
> I think there should first be a documentation. Anything I've seen yet
> only document how to implementing it.
A significant the user documentation is going to be describing the
format of the file and the semantics of the available entries, for which
the specification sufficies. All we have to do is wrap a little bit of
a very high level task-oriented documentation around it.
> Nothing describes clearly how
> to make .desktop files
Huh? Sure it does.
http://www.freedesktop.org/standards/desktop-entry-spec/desktop-entry-spec.html#BASIC-FORMAT
Seriously, it couldn't be easier.
> and what the content should be (oposed to the
> format),
If by this you mean "typical content", then all we need to do is point
to a few examples.
> nor how to customize this for local needs.
Generally you should be using the menu file to customize the desktop
files.
> No, but things like fvwm-modules just add a menu item, describing itself
> as fvwm-module. And anything able to cope with fvwm-modules (and be it only
> fvwm) gets them all.
> Same is with window managers. A Window manager adds a needs=wm item for
> itself, and anything allowing to choose a wm gets a file what wms exist
> and how they are called.
All we have to do is add an X-Debian-WM key. I don't see what the big
deal is.
> I was speaking of the mere numbers. Currently things having a Gnome or
> KDE menu entry are a minority.
And you know how many programs come upstream with Debian menu entries?
A grand total of zero.
> I
> do not want Debian to lead into disaster...
I feel the same way.
> It describes happily complex formats and schematas. (Nice for a roadmap
> to implement a prototype oneself, for a standard inadequate.)
> It does not speak about anyone beside the programmer at all.
Your repeated requests for very high level user documentation are
reasonable, but we are discussing changing the format and implementation
of the menu system. Documentation will necessarily follow *after* that.
> It furthermore describes no way to get a standardized deeper menu.[4]
> I'm not saying automatic aproaches or specific menus per wm should
> not be possible. I'm talking about they being avoidable.
That is true. But I would argue that wanting such a homogenous menu is
crack. It may make sense for standalone window managers like fvwm or
whatever, but the whole point of integrated desktop environments like
GNOME, KDE, XFCE, etc. is that it's integrated. You don't have random
crappy unintegrated utilities like xditview showing up in your menu.
Seriously, does *anyone* use xditview?
Anyways, it would likely not be too hard to implement this with a
<IgnoreOnlyShowIn> key or something.
> Thus my whole point is, that this is by no means menu standard.
It certainly is. It's out there and it works.
> On its
> best its a format description for menu-files, that some new fashioned
> wms are able to parse. And it might have good things like less work
> to write menu-methods for those. But it is by no means something
> resonable to base our menu-system on.
It is not only reasonable, it would fix a number of outstanding
problems, the largest of which is internationalization.
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