Jeroen, you and this discussion are useless if you don't show cooperation.
(please note that with this message I undo the crosspost.)
On Wed, 22 May 2002 14:54:00 +0200
Jeroen Dekkers <jeroen@dekkers.cx> wrote:
> On Wed, May 22, 2002 at 05:33:50PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> >
> > Then provide host firewalling tools. I'm sure the Hurd can act as a
> > host.
>
> I don't see any reason for this. We can have a secure system without
> firewalling tools.
>
You show me a hurd without them, and I'll show you one I probably will
not be able to use and definitely won't want to.
(Realizing that different people might want to use things that are
different from the things you want to use would solve most of the
issues you face here and render this thread as done.)
Your comments have no basis in reality, given firewalling tools are in
fact useful and used. You have a different way? Presently, my attitude
is, "So what??" because you're not presently acting in a credible
manner.
> > Note that, following Linux's precedent, there's no need to have your
> > first implementation by elegant. You can rip it out entirely when
> > you think of a better way to do it, and have all the userspace tools
> > breaks, and just provide a kludgy script to replace it, and people
> > won't particularly mind.
>
> No, at least my philosophy is "you do something the right way or you
> don't do it at all".
"-The- right way"? Sorry for fanning, but you supplied the fire:
there is not -one- right way. You have said here you think there
is always one right way. Do you want us to tithe you too?
General: Please get a clue, or a truckload. Debian is a creative
project, so is the Hurd. It's your (stated) goal to combine them
on your terms, and your terms only (see above paragraph) because
you think yours is the only way, and the only right way. I'll
grant you only that it -might- be a way, but that's all.
Given your (apparently uncooperative) attitude (as described by
you and referred to here), I don't think your "contributions"
are all that welcome. If you prove me wrong, great. But the
ONLY way you can do that is by convincing enough debian
maintainers that yours is the way to go, i.e., by ceasing to
be uncooperative and beginning to build consensus.
If you prove me wrong, I might actually -try- the Hurd, but if
yours is the prevailing attitude in the Hurd community, why
should I? AFAIK, it's not all that fast. Further, I don't need to
be subjected to religious fanaticism. (IMO, you need to hear
especially this paragraph if you expect to build a userbase.
You won't exactly be attracting people in droves the way you're
trying now.)
People have come before you with the belief that Linux is
philosophically wrong, and that L. Torvalds should not have
even created it. Is this your belief as well? That Linus was
-evil- for creating an OS to compete with the Hurd? Your
strategy and that of at least one other person are very
similar... perhaps we have a pattern match here.
As long as you continue to show your non-cooperation, I'm not
on your side in any way, shape or form. (Not that you need me
in particular, but votes do count.)
However, I can just as easily switch to your side, but you would
have to demonstrate you can be a reasonable person for about 3
to 5 years. At the moment (as stated above), I don't find you too
credible.
> Jeroen Dekkers
> --
> Jabber ID: jdekkers@jabber.org IRC ID: jeroen@openprojects
> GNU supporter - http://www.gnu.org
So am I, but I'm not dangerously fanatical about it. I do
question the statements of people who are (about anything,
not just computer stuff :)
You could still be useful as a GNU supporter: Get ridiculous
patents rescinded (but don't contribute to the thread on that
topic here; it's played out :)
-Jim
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