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Re: where do NEW packages go?

>>"Wolfgang" == Wolfgang Jährling <wolfgang@pro-linux.de> writes:

 Wolfgang> Adam Heath <doogie@debian.org> wrote:
 >> hurd does not exist alone in the universe, it exists alongside debian.

 Wolfgang> True. But for most people in Debian, the Hurd doesn't exist
 Wolfgang> at all and they "don't feel like caring about the
 Wolfgang> Hurd". That is not only my subjective impression, but also
 Wolfgang> what Debian developers said in the past (and some did
 Wolfgang> behave accordingly). I would love to see the Hurd people
 Wolfgang> and Debian people cooperate, but like Jeroen (and others as
 Wolfgang> well), I have given up any hope and don't think that Debian
 Wolfgang> will ever change in the necessary ways, as we were even
 Wolfgang> told by people that they are unwilling to understand the
 Wolfgang> Hurd-related issues.

	I also note that both the people complaining are not part of
 Debian (not that there is not a problem). Part if the issue here is
 understanding how debian works; I personally do not know (and do not
 care) what a debian developer maintains.

	But any technical change, whether it is related to the HURD,
 to X, or how init scripts work, needs a certain process in order to
 be implemented: amongst other things, one needs to have a technical
 design (marcus has done most of that); there has to be working code,
 perhaps with test cases, and then one needs to work with the people
 in charge of the infrastructure to roll out the changes.

	This requires some knowledge of how Debian infrastructure
 works, and also the ability to convince people of the merits of the
 solution (working code goes a hell of a long way to adding

	Complaining loudly on the mailing lists just gets one ignored.

 Wolfgang> Putting people like Jeroen who complain about these things
 Wolfgang> in your killfile won't help, and even indicates that what I
 Wolfgang> wrote above is true: Debian people prefer to ignore these
 Wolfgang> issues.

	Yep, we do tend to ignore mere talk and vapurware. This is as
 it should be.  In any sizeable group of people, there are protocols
 on how to interact with people and get things working.

 Wolfgang> Or do you think there are no problems at all and we
 Wolfgang> are just whining?

	Both; there are problems, and you are just whining.

 Wolfgang> I  can assure you that this is not the
 Wolfgang> case. And while I understand that Debian has enough
 Wolfgang> problems on its own, I think that something needs to be
 Wolfgang> done with respect to the Hurd port, and I feel that this
 Wolfgang> would be in the interest of everyone involved.

	You are belabouring the obvious. 

 Wolfgang> BTW, I planned to become a Debian developer a while ago,
 Wolfgang> but for reasons similar to Jeroens, I have changed my
 Wolfgang> opinion on that. I hope that others can keep their optimism
 Wolfgang> longer than we could and will actually be able to improve
 Wolfgang> Debian, but I doubt it. I rather expect that the Debian
 Wolfgang> GNU/*BSD people will feel similar like most of us do right
 Wolfgang> now. I hope that I'm wrong. :-/

	Then you are just wasting my time.


 You should encourage yourself, yourself. You should restrain
 yourself, yourself. When you are self-protected like that, you will
 live happily as a bhikkhu. 379
Manoj Srivastava   <srivasta@debian.org>  <http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/>
1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

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