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Re: [Debian account] I request your attention

On Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 03:14:39PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 09:33:08PM +0200, Lars Bahner wrote:
> > On Sat, Aug 04, 2001 at 04:56:40AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > > On Fri, Aug 03, 2001 at 03:57:05PM +0200, Lars Bahner wrote:
> > > > I fail to grasp why that is so apparently self evident. No one can force
> > > > you to volunteer, but if you do volunteer then you have agreed to do
> > > > some work and had better do it. Otherwise you should withdraw from your
> > > > voluntary work - or voluntary duties, as it where.
> > > Is that really an ultimatum you want to be making?
> > I am hardly in a position to make ultimata ;) 
> > It would be a question of honour, now wouldn't it.
> No, it wouldn't. Not even slightly.
> You have _no_ right to demand I do anything with my free time, or
> anyone else. Unless you're their boss, you don't even have any right
> to demand anything of people specifically paid to work on Debian.

anthony, if you volunteer to do something then you should perform that
task to the best of your ability OR get out of the way and let someone
else do it.

refusing to do the work while preventing anyone else from doing it is
NOT an option here. you either do what you volunteered to do or you let
someone else do it.

> The correct response to someone who goes MIA from Debian, or who gets
> bored with doing stuff, or who develops a personal vendetta against
> you is to be grateful for everything they've done in the past, and to
> volunteer yourself (and prove your competence beyond any doubt, and
> whatever else) if necessary.

in this particular instance, the people who have volunteered to do the
job are staying silent, ignoring the problem and perhaps hoping it will
go away. they're not willing to do the job they volunteered to do but
they're not willing to get out of the way and let someone else do it

that is simply not acceptable.

obstruction like that helps nobody.

> How _dare_ you question the honour of anyone who's given of their
> free time to help out Debian? Is your heart truly so blackened with
> arrogance and selfish greed?

some people dare to call things as they see them. some aren't even
perturbed by the risk that they'll get phrases better suited to trashy
fantasy novels than open debate flung at them.

when you see the same pattern of inaction and silence repeated over a
few years, there are reasonable grounds for suspecting that certain
people aren't acting as honourably as they could/should be, or that the
DAM is not simply overworked but is performing his voluntarily-accepted
duties in a biased and partial manner.

if it was a short-lived temporary problem, i'd agree with you - just
wait and it will eventually get fixed...but a) waiting patiently has been
tried and the problem still isn't fixed; and b) it's not like that
at all, the problem isn't just a recent and temporary one, there have
been complaints about this issue for years.

there appears to be no will to solve the problem by those who are in a
position to solve it. the issue flares up every few months but nothing
ever happens and little or no comment is ever made by those who are able
to fix it.

wait and see. this current discussion will peter out within a few days
or a week with no resolution, but the exact same issue will come up
again in a few months time, and again a few months after that, and again
and again and again. each time with the exact same result - no action,
no comment.

while not trying to demean the good work done by Dale and co. with the
New Maintainer process, it seems pretty clear to me that Dale's plan
for getting NM up and running again was sabotaged at the outset by not
delegating the DAM responsibilities to the NM team but leaving it in the
hands of those who silently decided to abuse their positions and just
close debian to new maintainers several years ago.


craig sanders <cas@taz.net.au>

Fabricati Diem, PVNC.
 -- motto of the Ankh-Morpork City Watch

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