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Re: real LSB compliance

>>"Steven" == Steven Hanley <sjh@svana.org> writes:

 >> Of course the LSB project may decide this is too onerous a
 >> task, and then we are left with the status Quo.

 Steven> this really is the wrong attitude I think.

	I see. I guess this is going to give me an incentive to change
 my wrong headed ways. 

 Steven> it is not a case of does LSB (and who is LSB anyway, it seems
 Steven> the same argument could almost be applied to LSB as an entity
 Steven> as to debian as an entity) want debian to be involved. The
 Steven> question is does the debian project want to be involved iwth
 Steven> LSB, and if so people participating in the debian  project
 Steven> must actively take part in the LSB process on the LSB lists
 Steven> and such. 

	As a project, we have not yet made that determination. If
 historical precedence applies (as with the FHS), the project is
 likely to decide that we would recommend going with the LSB, perhaps
 with caveats. 

 Steven> The onus is not on people participating in LSB to come onto
 Steven> the debian lists and attempt to get us to take notice of them
 Steven> and talk with them. The onus is  on debian people to get onto
 Steven> the LSB lists and participate there. 

	Andf this is the right attitude? I suspect that the LSB folks
 are not as one sided as you are making them out to be (and this is
 really a dissservice to them). If we cannot meet halfway, then this
 effort is doomed. And I wish this discussion on the Debian lists had
 been started before the review process, and not after. However, that
 is spilt milk, and we can use this opportunity to engage Debian into
 the LSB in the future -- not piecemeal, or as individuals, but by
 leveraging the prodcesses that Debian already uses to make

 Steven> If debian users are interested in getting Debian to be LSB
 Steven> conformant and in  making the LSB sensible, they must take
 Steven> part in LSB. This is up to the   individaul users and
 Steven> developers of debian on the whole, it is irrelevant if  the
 Steven> DPL or someone similar (members of hte CABAL through some
 Steven> assumed    alias.... :) say debian must be LSB conformant as
 Steven> that wont force developers  and users to participate in LSB
 Steven> or LSB to participate in debian, only people  who want it
 Steven> will make the effort. So do you want it? 

	Well, we have demonstrated that so far we are not -- since
 participation in the effort has been minimal, and patchy; and little
 information has flowed through to the Debian lists so far. 

	However, I reject your thesis that the only way Debian can
 participate is as individuals -- I think we can get the buy-in of the
 project by carrying out a discussion (perhaps in parallel) on the
 debian lists, and let _all_ developers participate. (I suspect that
 the lsb list may be overwhelmed if a sizeable chunk of the 800+
 debian developers jumped in on the lsb lists and hijacked discussion
 in our own inimitable way).

 "IBM uses what I like to call the 'hole-in-the-ground technique' to
 destroy the competition..... IBM digs a big HOLE in the ground and
 covers it with leaves. It then puts a big POT OF GOLD nearby. Then it
 gives the call, 'Hey, look at all this gold, get over here fast.' As
 soon as the competitor approaches the pot, he falls into the pit"
 John C. Dvorak
Manoj Srivastava   <srivasta@debian.org>  <http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/>
1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C

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