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NM queue is still OPEN -- at least, officially (Re: (calmer reply) Re: New-maintainer)


The subject is all.  The NM queue is still OPEN, at least officially.
Otherwise, the AMs (me, one of them) would moan/curse for all of their
wasted time, cost, work, effort, and wishes at their best (or worst) rate.

As far as I've heard of, the one (and the only active one, for the time
being) of our DAM have difficulties to connect the rest of the world,
and it is the only one reason for the delay of DAM process.

Again, NM queue is not dead now. If you truely want to close the gate again,
you're free to attack/protest/curse the key (the most weak, IMHO) point of
the system.  If you continue that, you will probably get what you want, as
well as all the resentment from the members of the current system, since
you'll get success to ruin our hope.

You say, "Why don't get the new member for the DAM ?"
I wish if we had more DAM members to process job, too.
Perhaps most of Debian members feel the same, since one of the DAM
himself wrote that he has been also planning to find another member
of the DAM for more than a year.
(Check the archive of debian-newmaint-discuss list)

But THIS IS THE IMPORTANT TASK. You know, our constitution defines
explicitly the special task which may not be done by the DPL himself
directly, and it is THIS.

Currently, that Delegates (the DAMs) are

     □ Developer Accounts Managers -- <da-manager@debian.org>                  
             current  James Troup                                               
             current  Martin (Joey) Schulze                                     
as shown on "Maintainer Contacts" page.

James works the maintainer of the gnupg and the keyring, too.
Joey (M.S.) works for SPI as well.

If you can't trust them, or their word, then perhaps you can't
trust the Debian, at least when they're at such the important

No, they can't be perfect, since they are human, and perhaps they
needs the peace and the rest sometimes.  IMHO, they should not be
blamed at, with the reason of they are only mortal.

And, as far as I trust their word, they wish to get people working
for the Debian.  They just take care as much as they can, since it
is their duty.  The closure of the gate is not at all their aim.

  on Sun, 14 Jan 2001 14:26:30 +1100,
 Daniel Stone <daniel@kabuki.eyep.net> wrote:

> are fine. What I was saying is that between school, work, and some semblance 
> of a life, I don't have much spare time, but that I do, I try to spend on
> Debian. I probably could maintain 10-ish (minor) packages, but I don't want
> to throw myself into the deep end wrt BTS, etc. Just the exact same way as
> you don't throw a baby into the middle of the Pacific Ocean to teach it to
> swim. Of course not. You put it in a wading pool, it gets used to water,
> then eventually learns to swim and, hell, maybe it becomes another Tammy van
> Wisse (long-distance swimmer) and swims from .au to $FARAWAYPLACE.

Current Debian system is not so good for training gymnasium.
(or in-door pool, for the baby swimmer).
The maintainer script is executed as root, so a small careless mistake
could bring up the disaster on the user's system, or porter's one.

And, if the most of the package maintainer would not take care of our
infrastructure system, the Debian could not release the bug-free stable
version anymore, since there are many left bug reports in our BTS even

"Do what I can do" is good principle basically, I agree.
But the Debian requires the quality.  And that quality requires
a lot of resource from the members.

I don't think all the new members are inferior to the current one.
Some of them are quite impressive, far more superior to me for ex.
But we can't rely the optimist.  If you look our database, you'll
find the "on-hold" section.  Some of them are very honest people.
They requsts to be placed there in their own mails.
And some of them just vanised.   No reply to the mails sent to them.

So, we can't adopt automatic registering system where anyone can
enter the project.  And manual handling takes longer time. so what?

> with many others. Keep the NMs rolling. I'm very happy re: the proposal to

Again, NM queue is still running, at least officially.
Just Don't spread the FUD.  We (at least, me) are not proud of the delay
for processing, but at least we do at our best, and we ARE proud of
the quality of our work. (It may not be perfect, of course. We mortals 
know it).

> I know I don't have to work 23.9 hours a day to become a maintainer. In the
> last flamewar, Ben Collins was bemoaning the single, double or triple
> package people and waving around the "ded*cation" word. Basically, I'm happy
> to do whatever I can whenever I can, and if that means only maintaining 3
> packages, but doing it bloody well, great.

I agree that "doing it bloody well (on a few packages), great".
But you need to know it may require the up-to-date knowledge of 
the recent change in the policy, dpkg, kernel or X packages,
debhelper or debconf, our installer, our supported architectures,
and our archive.
And if you can contribute somthing to those fundamentals, if you
can make them better, then it will be highly appreciated.

> Nonono, you see, what I meant was that the sponsors wouldn't be getting any
> of *THEIR* work done. They'd spend all their Debian time doing sponsoring.
> I'm saying that the sponsors now do (inefficently) work, but getting an
> account is a far, far, FAR better way. If we closed NM off and made every NM

Again, NM queue is still running, at least officially.

> work through a sponsor, not only would the number balloon, making it far
> more inefficient, said sponsors would get fed up and leave, but there'd be
> no-one who had risen through the NM queue to become a developer and felt
> like being a sponsor to sponsor people, rinse, repeat.

While I agree that sponsored is the second to the best (I know it
since I myself had sponsored a few packages), but I know that my
first applicant chose the sponsor job as his first task other than
maintaining his own packages.

Though this is a follow to a mail, this is not a personal reply at all.
So I send this only to the list.

# BTW, I don't subscribe this list, only read it via netnews.
# So if you wish to reach me, you can cc to me.  Don't expect the quick
# reply though, since I have injured my left arm.  I wrote (or typed)
# all of this mail with my right hand only.  It takes longer than usual.
# sigh.

  Taketoshi Sano: <sano@debian.org>,<sano@debian.or.jp>,<kgh12351@nifty.ne.jp>

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