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Re: (calmer reply) Re: New-maintainer - STOP YOUR SHIT

On Sun, 14 Jan 2001, Daniel Stone wrote:

> Evolution is compiling in the background (will take ages), and I'm reading
> my mail with cat ~/Maildir/new/* | less. So don't complain about
> non-quoting.

What's wrong with a normal mail client reading those files, so you can quote
properly?  If you say the compile will take ages, then you obviously don't
need it finished now, so running a mail client, of any type, should be
fine(reading between the lines it seems you want to say that a mail client
will slow the compile down).

> Responding to Ben:
> [snip]

What Ben is saying is that you can't compare apples to oranges.  Someone who
maintains 60+ packages(Joey Hess), who maintains a large package(glibc(Ben
Collins) or xfree86(Branden Robinson)), who works on low-level tools
(dpkg(Wichert Akkerman, Ben Collins, me(lately)), apt(Jason Gunthorpe)),
who works on system descisions(policy(Santiago Villa, Manoj Srivasta, Raul
Miller)), can't be compared to someone who maintains a package like gtrue(this
does not include a lot of behind the scenes work, aka ftpmaster, owner@bugs,
debian systems administration(DSA)).

> And, in response to Adam:
> [snip]

I agree with Martin.  Sometimes, slapping those who are attacking you in the
face is enough to wake them up and make them see the light.  However, it
doesn't always work, and in those cases, it is best to cut out and eliminate
the dead wood from the forest, so that the live wood can continue to grow and

Yes, sometimes we 'Senior Developers' bitch and moan loudly at each
other.  That does not mean we 'hate each other's guts.'  This is how debian
works, and so far, it seems to work well.  Becoming a Senior Developer gives
one the right to flame other developers, of equal caliber.  However, I do not
think that new developers should have the right to attack and belittle those
who have given so much to the project.

To quote from the movie, "Saving Private Ryan"

    "I think this mission is a serious misallocation of resources."

    "Listen to this, this is how to complain."

    "The  way I see it, is God has given me a gift.  He has made me
    into this fine weapon of war.  If you place me within 1000 to
    1500 yards of Hilter, that's it fellas, war's over."

This quote is coming from the part of the movie, where the one guy is
complaining that their mission(to save the 4th brother, who's other 3 have all
died in battle) is a waste, and that they should abandon it.  However, the guy
quoted above complains correctly, by saying what his skills are, and how they
could be better used.

My point, is that random bitching and moaning, to people who don't even care,
will not get you anywhere.  If you see a problem, find a the solution, inform
those of the resolution, and work to fix it.  Complaining about it will NOT

> Nonono, you see, what I meant was that the sponsors wouldn't be getting any
> of *THEIR* work done. They'd spend all their Debian time doing sponsoring.
> I'm saying that the sponsors now do (inefficently) work, but getting an
> account is a far, far, FAR better way. If we closed NM off and made every NM
> work through a sponsor, not only would the number balloon, making it far
> more inefficient, said sponsors would get fed up and leave, but there'd be
> no-one who had risen through the NM queue to become a developer and felt
> like being a sponsor to sponsor people, rinse, repeat.

Um, are you saying being a sponsor means one does not work for debian?  Are
you belittling the work these sponsors do?

I find it preposterous that people seem to think they can only do work by
having a Ring Of Debian Developership.  I mean, 

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