[Date Prev][Date Next] [Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

Formal objection: Changing how the testing of potato works would invalidate the whole test. So please don't change it.

Hi Josip:

Summary: I don't think changing anything about the testing phase will do
anyone any good. The most serious reason is doing so would invalidate
and require cancelling and subsequent rescheduling of the whole test. 

I therefore formally object.

(Richard Braakman == dark on irc; I refer to him as "dark" in this note.) 
> Date:    Sun, 14 May 2000 02:01:59 +0200
> To:      Richard Braakman <dark@xs4all.nl>
> cc:      debian-devel@lists.debian.org, debian-release@lists.debian.org
> From:    Josip Rodin <joy@cibalia.gkvk.hr>
> Subject: Re: First Test Cycle starts today
> On Tue, May 02, 2000 at 12:35:19PM +0200, Richard Braakman wrote:
> > After that, the distribution will be tested for about 10 days, during
> > which it will not change at all.  After testing comes an evaluation
> > period, during which we either release potato as-is, or install any
> > fixes necessary (which one hopes will be available in Incoming already;
> > is not, there will be an extra delay), and start a new Test Cycle.
> Almost two weeks have passed since this test cycle began, so this would seem
> to be the time to make that evaluation.
> Since the archive move and all the related trouble related to it happened
> exactly during the test cycle, the schedule is a bit disturbed (two
> Incomings etc), but we shouldn't let these problems delay the release any
> longer than it already has to be :)

ahh :) the usual complaint on the length of time :) what you didn't realize 
is what you are suggesting would delay the release -much- more than just 
being patient :)
> How about this for the next plan: 

How bout reality for this plan :) which is: the first test cycle's preparation
phase has not ended yet :) When the boot floppies are ready and the images are
ready, then we begin testing the whole dist.

But you actually mean "when we freeze and test woody" by "the next plan". 
Right? :)

> you accept uploads to potato until the new
> boot-floppies get uploaded 

OK, so you don't mean that. So I voice my formal objection to your plan.

I will express some reasoning behind my objection in some paragraphs at the
end of this.

I think dark noticed that uploads are getting through... So please everyone:
don't upload to potato without his ok during the freeze! If the mechanism
of the ftp sites are allowing such uploads, then the process must become
cooperative: each developer should only upload after asking, and then only
the version discussed in the ask.

(boot floppy maintainers: Pls. read this paragraph re: boot floppies 2.2.13)

The new boot floppies are uploaded (you mean 2.2.13, right? but: those still
have a problem in modutils; I just discovered yesterday that the ne2000 
driver (at least, hadn't tried others) will not load from the modutils tool
during install. It's possible that me having to reboot the install had some-
thing to do with that; if so, it means that the modutils had to be told
that the whole to-be-debian is mounted on /target, not /, -and- that after
the reboot it was -not- told this.)

> (if they do), and then start a new test cycle.
> People can continue testing with the CD images from the previous test cycle
> in the meantime (the differences aren't that important for testing
> installations). What do you think?

Some reasons I object formally to Josip Rodin's suggestion that dark loosen
the freeze:

Dark has come up with the plan to test the dist. I happen to think it's a
good plan. In the past, the testing was behind very, very closed doors.

I like that dark has chosen to open them. I very much like that dark says
-nothing- changes during a test cycle. You go changing that now, and you
might as wel rewrite the whole plan. Tell ya what: you run for release
manager next time. For now, it's dark's responsibility. Please let him do
the job. 

Having said that, I would welcome comments as hindsight for future
debian releases. But altering anything about how the testing algorithm
works for the testing we are now involved in invalidates not just the
test phase, but the whole test. The entire test would have to be scrapped, 
another way to do it would have to be created and the test (re)scheduled. 
Oh yes, you want to unfreeze too. You do want to release this millenium??

I hope that during the evaluation phase, it is -decided- what packages
get in, and potato does -not- effectively become unfrozen, i.e., by
dark taking Josip's suggestion, that dark would "accept uploads to
potato" at any time during freeze that is in any way new features or
code, or unimportant fixes; that is, not release critical. I hope very
careful thought is applied and the release manager is involved in that
thinking process when it is decided whether a package gets in or does
not get in. Debian will not be truely stable without that.


Jim Lynch       Finger for pgp key
as Laney College CIS admin:  jim@laney.edu   http://www.laney.edu/~jim/
as Debian developer:         jwl@debian.org  http://www.debian.org/~jwl/

Reply to: