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Re: calling Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> [the long version]

On Thu, Jun 03, 1999 at 11:25:20AM -0400, Dale Scheetz wrote:
> > at worst, you could say that we are indifferent to your plight. we
> Indifference to the plight of the majority is ipso facto a conspiracy
> to oppress.

absolute garbage.

(a) we are not talking about the majority here. we are talking about
a tiny minority of people who have the knowledge, the skills, and the
technology to run their own mail servers. the vast majority of internet
users are barely capable of even following the usage instructions given
them by their ISPs.

(b) joseph and other technically competent people have numerous ways to
route around any inconvenience, all it takes is a bit of planning and a
bit of work. if that is too much effort, i can see no reason to feel any
sympathy at all for people too lazy to look out for their own interests.

> Forcing the majority to conform to onerous conditions where some mail
> servers are good and others are evil, just doesn't improve the overal
> functionality of the communication.

(c) these are not onerous conditions.

(d) some ISPs have enough of a clue to configure their mail servers to
deny 3rd party relaying. these are good ISPs. reward them with your

(e) some ISPs do not have enough of a clue to do this, or they do not
care unless it affects their bottom line. boycott them - they contribute
directly to the spam problem through their incompetence or their greed.

> > if you really want to send mail to a system protected by a DUL, then
> > nobody is stopping you. all you have to do is use your ISP's mail
> > relay or make some other arrangements.
> I DO USE MY ISP'S MAIL SERVER/RELAY! It is that very reason that my
> mail was bounced. mail.polaris.net, 

ORBS is not a Dialup IP List (DUL).  ORBS is a list of open relays.

your problem with mail.polaris.net has nothing at all to do with the DUL
RBL we have been discussing.

> a long time mail server, is on the list, not because it is an "open
> relay", but because a bug in sendmail causes it to fail the test used
> by ORBS. My ISP has apparently tried to deal with the problem, with no
> success. Anyone who wants to supply some help to them will be a real
> hero. (support@talstar.com)

i suppose it's possible that such a bug exists, although i haven't heard of
it before.  if it does exist then they should talk to ORBS and explain the
situation - if they can prove that they are not open to 3rd party relay then
they should be taken off the ORBS RBL.

if it is not a bug, just incompetence on their part, then they should
start acquiring some clues.


craig sanders

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