On Thu, Dec 10, 1998 at 09:36:42PM -0500, Dirk Eddelbuettel wrote: > > Joseph> I disagree, though I have answered them all the same. I think > Joseph> there are more important issues than who maintains what and how > Joseph> popular their packages are, what kinds of bugs, etc. > > Debian, much like other Open Souce projects, is a meritocratic system. > You earn respect, and trust, by showing what you are capable of. Problem is, some people who aren't bad programmers at all really don't make good leaders. Eric Raymond for example does not have a huge amount of support, regardless of what he can do because he just doesn't represent the people he's trying to. I personally think motives for doing the things you do are more important than what you do. I'm not disputing what you say, only pointing out that there are fkaws in such a system. This kind of system more often than not boils down to a popularity contest, and I don't intend to play that game. If I did, it wouldn't be fair to the other candidates or to myself because our ability and integrity would likely be ignored. This is the case with traditional politics in the US and I believe that's exactly what a majority of developers who are worried about bureaucracy creeping in to Debian don't want to see. The best person for the job should be the one elected, not the one with the most popularity points. > Dirk> 4. On which occassion, and how, have you helped the Debian project > Dirk> achieve a higher technical standard ? > > Joseph> I must admit I am not certain how to answer this. Could you > Joseph> define the scope a little? > > Debian strives for technical excellence, and often achieves remarcable > result. Without dpkg, there would be no Debian as we know it. Ian is > obviously qualified for his post because he did lots of work that is > essential to the project. There are others with _outstanding_ contributions, > and I believe that a question like the above helps to identify those who > contributed significantly. And hence deserve merit. But look at the consequences! Ian may have worked on dpkg and done a lot with it, but what has he done with it since taking his position as leader? I don't mean to sound harsh towards Ian here, but I don't believe he has time to be both the one writing dpkg and the one running Debian. I'm going to pick on Manoj a big here too since he is another developer widely considered somehow superhuman in terms of development of packages. When I asked him to consider running he declined saying that he doesn't have the time necessary to do what he's doing now AND be the project leader. Would you want Linus himself to be the leader of Debian? Or Alan Cox? They are both EXTREMELY qualified based on the above definition. I don't know about Alan, but I suspect Linus could not easily keep up his work on the kernel and run Debian effectively and still have time for his job and his family. Considering this, I would ask Linus not to run unless he was sure he could do all of that because what he's doing now is already too important to the community. To answer your question better, no I haven't done anything like write dpkg. In fact, I hardly speak C at all. I'm learning slowly and using the latest source code to the epic irc client as something to hack on. Considering (as I said before) I'm very much an irc person, this is the optimal way for me to learn to code. I have at least 2 copies of it running at all times and I roll my own scripts which gives me a chance to test my changes. Most of my work with Debian has been in supporting others. I did try some time ago to organize an effort to make Debian easier to install and maintain for a newbie, but those who were interested weren't quite interested enough or had time constraints which complicated matters greatly. I haven't given up on this and have found others interested in similar goals. Wichert comes to mind with configuration management. There isn't really a whole lot I have done on my own other than recent things like working on the QPL. I've done a lot of work with other people and in fact even the work on the QPL couldn't have been done without extensive involvement of others. But then, where would dpkg be if nobody had NMU'd it over the past year or more? I've looked at the changelogs and I believe dpkg would not be what it is today without a LOT of people, including Ian but hardly limited to him. Almost nothing of any great substance is a one-man-only job, even if one seems to be noticed for it. It's not about what I can do as an individual. If it were, I sure wouldn't be running for DPL! It's about what Debian can do together and my belief that I am a good person to represent Debian to the rest of the world and to help Debian work more smoothly internally. What can I do as project leader? Without the rest of the developers and users that make up Debian, not much. However, without those people there isn't much to Debian is there? -- "You're despicable." -- Daffy Duck
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