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Re: Content-Length harmful



Quoting Avery Pennarun (apenwarr@worldvisions.ca):
> > (I.e., dhesi isn't transparent enough a solution for something that's
> > already deployed.)
> 
> I guess you missed my point.

No, I just disagreed with it. :)

> I was saying that mbox, as it is, corrupts messages.  I can send you a
> message that says:
> 
> 	>From what camel dost the cavern fall?
> 	From the pink camel, of course.  Yeesh.
> 	
> And it will appear in your mbox as follows:
> 
> 	>From what camel dost the cavern fall?
> 	>From the pink camel, of course.  Yeesh.

Actually, in my mboxes, that wouldn't happen. Procmail's set so that it
adds the content-length and doesn't quote From's.

> mbox corrupts messages, period.  Here's what you would see if you used a
> dhasi MDA and an mbox MUA:
> 
> 	>>From what camel dost the cavern fall?
> 	>From the pink camel, of course.  Yeesh.
> 	
> Not much better, but no worse.  Similarly, if you use an mbox MDA and a
> dhasi MUA:
> 
> 	From what camel dost the cavern fall?
> 	From the pink camel, of course.  Yeesh.
> 	
> This looks bad, but pure-mbox is just as bad.  Look up above again.

Yes pure-mbox is pretty nasty. But the content-length solution is a
little bit better. Why? Because it hasn't touched the body of my
message. 

> A partial dhasi system is no better than mbox, but no worse.  A completely
> dhasi system is much better, and if we want a completely dhasi system, we
> can't be afraid to leave mbox.

But people are already using mbox, which is indistinguishable from your
new system. How can a poor MUA know when to strip a >From and when to
leave it alone? And we can't just ignore the existing MUAs. Whereas an
MUA recognizing content-length can use it if present, and never needs to
worry about whether to strip a >. So you can do a _partial_ deployment.
Machines using strict mbox symantics will still screw up their email,
but newer machines won't munge anything. As I said, it's still pretty
bad, but I prefer the principle of least destruction. The real solution
is to just drop mbox; then you don't need to worry about
interoperability, you get a whole host of other advantages, and it's no
harder than changing the mbox format.

Mike Stone


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