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Re: On adding size info to Packages files

>>"Michael" == Michael Bramer <michael@grisu.weh.rwth-aachen.de> writes:

 >> a) the data is harder to manipulate: as a separate file, dinstall
 >> just has to rename the file to a cache area, and use zcat and
 >> echo to generate the master sizes.gz file.
 >> As a control file, dinstall has to unpack the .deb file and
 >> extract the data.

 Michael> I think this not a point.  dinstall get the size.gz file
 Michael> from the .deb file (ar -x) and put it to the cache area. I
 Michael> don't see the difference?  (And for old .deb files: dinstall
 Michael> unpack the .deb file in /tmp/../ and make the size.gz-file)

	Time, and rpocessing required, and simplicity of
 dinstall. Yes, it can be done, but there seems to be no good reason
 to do it.

 >> b) The data is only needed on *some* machines, and only at install
 >> time. As a separate file, it can be downloaded as needed, or not
 >> at all (I have no need to slow down my installs, I know I have
 >> plenty of space at the moment).

 Michael> You use .deb file only at install time. After that you will
 Michael> remove all *.deb from your hard disk. (If you don't remove
 Michael> the *.deb then you have a very big disk and the kBytes are
 Michael> not the point..)

	Why bloat the size requirements for ftp sites and the
 bandwidth required for downloading for no good reason? Also, I need
 to keep the size data around (to calculate differences in size on

 >> When it is part of the .deb file, the data is carried around with
 >> the package all the time, whether needed or not. This is needless
 >> duplication and wastes network bnadwidth too.

 Michael> All the time. You use .deb only for the install time.? You don't?

	Why do I have to download the .deb to find whether I have
 space to install it? On a slow modem link? When I have to pay
 for the connection?

 >> c) a control file is unpacked and kept in /var/lib/dpkg/info area,
 >> which is a waste of space. The data is needed *before
 >> installation*, not afterwards.

 Michael> This is a point. But I say:

 Michael> You need the information when you install a package on your
 Michael> debian system.

	No, you need the information *before* you install stuff on
 your platform. Requiring the .deb file to be downloaded is not a good

 Michael> I think it is a nice to download only one file to install
 Michael> the package.

	I don't think this is changing. You still need to get the .deb
 file to install it. You may, however, get the Packages file to find
 out what is out there to install, and you can get the Sizes file to
 figure out if you have the space for it.

	Utility programs may be written to help parse the Sizes file
 (the checkdu package I posted can be used as base)

 Michael> I get often packages with ftp from a mirror and install the
 Michael> packages with: dpkg -i *.deb.

	This is not changed.

 Michael> If the the size information isn't in the debian-package,
 Michael> then i must download two files (NAME-VERSION.deb and
 Michael> NAME-VERSION.size.gz) or dpkg has no information of the size
 Michael> and can not make a warning message. :-(

	True. dpkg is a low level tool. The warning message at the
 moment is generated by apt (so many packages to install, after
 installing 324k shall be used). I don't think this belongs in dpkg;
 it belongs in apt. APT can use a Sizes file (one download,
 independent of the packages to be upgraded) to generate warnings *IF
 ASKED*. I still think there are people out there who do not want this
 in the first place.


 Why would you WANT to port C news to your PC?  Wouldn't it be smarter
 and about as cost-effective to port your PC over to the trashcan and
 buy a real computer that runs a real operating system like Unix?
 Brian Kantor (brian@ucsd.edu)
Manoj Srivastava  <srivasta@acm.org> <http://www.datasync.com/%7Esrivasta/>
Key C7261095 fingerprint = CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E

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