Re: Documentation on configuring Debian for desktop use?
On Thu, 2005-03-03 at 17:01 +0000, Brynjar Harðarson wrote:
> I'm not sure I agree this should be something for the end user, if I
> understand what end user means that is, the person who is going to be
> using the software right?
In a sense yes, but both the Administrator and the User should be taken
into consideration. As such it would be wise to seperate the document in
to Administrator and End User sections. Alternatively there could be two
such Documents. If anyone has a better term for End User that would be
great. The connotation it brings is not helpful. Right now we should
focus on the setup document you are thinking of. Afterwards we can look
at stuff for the user.
> Thous people would need something like a user guide to learn how to use
> the system. I was thinking more of a documentation for the people who
> are installing Debian on a desktop that is eventually going to be used
> by the end user. It would cover what to do once you have installed the
> base system. Though it could also include a basic guide to installing
> Debian to make it more accessible to new users.. but now that I think of
> it there are some choices to be made while installing the base system
> that can be different depending on if you are installing Debian for
> desktop use or something else.
>
> Beside the base installation process I have few ideas of what it could
> cover.
>
> - What version of Debian to use for desktop
I think we should target the upcoming release. Once it releases we will
have a solid set of packages to document. Since this is going to
directly relate to the Debian Desktop Project it should target their
work. As I understand it Sarge is where that is headed.
> - Setting up a boot splash image
> This is not a crucial thing but I think we can all agree that the
> desktop should look at least OK to the eye, most operating systems that
> focus on desktop use have something like this, since Debian is a
> "Universal Operating System" this is something that we need to document
> how to do manually.
> http://www.desktop-linux.net/bootsplash.htm
> http://www.bootsplash.org/
>
> - Installing ALSA
> Getting sound to work with ALSA, there are bunch of HowTos on this but
> maybe not specific for Debian, they all have in common to tell you to
> compile ALSA from source instead of using binary packages, at least in
> the HowTos that I have seen. Is this really the ideal way? Should we not
> encourage use of pre-compiled binary packages from a official repository
> whenever possible?
> http://www.linuxorbit.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=541&page=1 - This is since November 1, 2002..
>
> - Installing X and some desktop environment (GNOME/KDE/Xfce/etc..)
> Again bunch of HowTos on this topic but maybe not specificly for Debian.
> I think we should not encourage use of proprietary video drivers for X,
> if anything then just link to an existing howto. We should support more
> then just one desktop environment, the desktop environments with the
> biggest user groups are GNOME and KDE, so that would be a good start I
> think.
We definately need a decent section on this. Fortunately the latest
versions of X in Debian make configuration much easier than before. You
are right about the propietary driver issue. It would be out of sync
with the free software goals that Debian is dedicated to. That said a
seperate reference or appendix would be helpful.
The default desktop installation for Debian includes GNOME and KDE, with
your choice of gdm or kdm to manage X. Due to this we will need to
document both as you say.
> - Installing extra packages
> Extra packages to fill in allot of desktop functionality, this is
> something that needs to be sorted out, some info on this can be found in
> the bellow link.
> http://wiki.debian.net/?DefaultPackages
This can be a surprisingly sticky situation to document and I feel it is
best we avoid it at first. I actually helped write that list on the Wiki
in the first days of the Debian-Desktop project.[1] It appears to have
changed a lot since then. The ongoing argument about what default
packages should be was never resolved and eventually sapped the initial
steam away from the project. Fortunately there seems to be some progress
there now.
Ultimately there are already a large set of default packages (much too
large IMHO) used by the Debian Desktop task currently in Sarge. This is
not really DD's fault but a byproduct of using the curent kde and gnome
metapackages. We should probably start with this base set. Any
additional packages we find can be added later.
> - What groups to put users in
> What groups should users be in? For example if they need to access to
> the sound card to play audio they need to be in the audio group. We
> should have a list of what groups the users should be in.
> - Automatic USB/FireWire device handling
> I have never seen any howto of any kind on this topic for Debian, the
> way I do it (this works in Sid at least) is to add the user to the
> plugdev group, works like a charm. I guess if this approach is taken
> this would just go into what groups to put the user in.
Definately, but more importantly we should have a list of the available
groups and descriptions of them. I ran into the same thing recently and
figured it out based on how d-i adds a user. Ideally we should also
include directions on how to make groups part of the default adduser
settings. Honestly, I never have found this, and not for lack of trying.
> We can probably get allot of more ideas if we study how Ubuntu goes
> about doing things..
Most definately since it looks like a lot of the original Desktop
Developers migrated to Ubuntu. (Not surprising since pushing for complex
changes in Debian is historically very difficult. We need to work on
that somehow.)
I think we have the same ideas, mine were just a bit broader. It would
probably be wise to narrow the focus until we have some kind of useful
plan. I still have more ideas but I need to work them out some more. I
would like to keep collecting references for a time. Meanwhile we can
also hammer out our plan a bit more.
Keep the ideas and references flowing!
--
Matthew P. McGuire <gray@shadowglade.net>
[1] - Actually I tried to help organize it when Colin went on to other
things. But real life got in the way. You should find copious notes from
me in places like http://wiki.debian.net/?NativeOrGeneric and
http://wiki.debian.net/?WoodyOrSid . (yup I am that same zealot :-)
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