I agree to about 90% of what you said. I got into this list thinking that eventually we would start a discussion about the things you are pointing out here. Read on... On Sun, 2003-12-07 at 08:28, Florian Reichert wrote: > Hello! > > I don't now exactly, what the intention this Mailinglist is, so I may be > OT here. > It's supposed to encourage people to talk about using Debian on a desktop system. Exactly what we are about to do. > What I am missing in the debian Project is a desktop release. I had many > Problems with the 3.0 release, for example the cdwriting stuff is not up > to date, the kde and other desktop software is outdate, the ghostscript > version caused many Problems on my system ... Debian unstable, besides it's name, it's very stable. At least in my case and the other systems I have installed it (my father's, my cousin's, etc..., at work!). I usually start from a Knoppix based system and them switch the sources.list file to point to Debian unstable. Downgrade XFree86 to whatever Debian unstable has, and installed Gnome 2.4 (after removing KDE and all KDE related stuff). In the end I have a very solid desktop system in under 4 hours. Well, that's just me because i have done it a lot of times. This process could be reduced significantlyas follows: 1. have a mini CD with a graphical install and bootable in any system x86 with 300 Mhz and up (this is a desktop anyway, we don't want to support the oldest hardware in the planet and the newest) -- besides, if somebody still uses a 200Mhz system he/she probably knows what to do to get Linux on it ;-) 2. This mini CD is a knoppix like disk that presents a graphical installation with everything pre-selected (base packages and things like that, no servers, etc...) Then ask the user whether they want KDE or Gnome (or both)and proceed detecting and installing anything necessary from Debian unstable/testing repositories. So, if the CD detects a CD burner, installs Xroast or something like that (plus cdrecord and the like). 3. Installs the meta packages needed for a eye-candy desktop "gnome" and the extra themes and fonts (no xfs please) and have FAM be started by "root" not by inetd (by inetd it creates problems). 4. Sets a regular user that will be logged in automatically and reminds the user to create users as needed and to set passwords for "root" and that other account. Heck, root account should be disabled (with an impossible password) and install "sudo" and allow this newly created user to do everything on the box (superuser rights). Let the users know that they must enable root by changing it's password and also to update the password of this user. Call this user "debian" or something like that. 5. After reboot, congratulate the user for doing such a huge number of steps all by him/herself! LOL > But updating this packages by backports or testing/unstable Versions is > tricky and could/should not be done by any user. > I thought about knoppix to be the solution for this, but ran into new > Problems, because you can't update the deb packages of knoppix with the > apt tools. (sure, technikal that works, but koppix has no own server for > ne deb Packages, so you have to use again the esting/unstable Packages). > So the only way to update knoppix in an secure way is to install it new > from a knoppix CD or to select the deb packages by your own, to avoid > truble. > > The solution I would sugest is to have a Debian Desktop Distribution, > based on knopiix, with its own server for the deb packages. > knoppix is based on unstable (as you already know) and I know that it just works, but so does the unstable packages, they work fine. Though they need testing, but they work fine. If something breaks after installing the "desktop" as I proposed before, Bug-Buddy (gnome bug reporting program) should open Synaptic and allow the user to see if there is a new upgrade for that package -- at the same time it tries to send a report to Gnome bugzilla. > What is your opionion ... If there is anyone reading this list ... > > Regards > > Florian > > -- > http://www.reichertnet.de I hope this starts a long thread of ideas... I'm more than able and willing to help in building a solution like this. -- ----)(----- Luis M System Administrator/Web Developer LatinoMixed.com lemsx1@latinomixed.com http://www.latinomixed.com/
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