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Re: Renewed appeal to the technical committee about the FransAndCo.Vs.Sven dispute

On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 04:58:32PM +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Sven Luther writes ("Re: Renewed appeal to the technical committee about the FransAndCo.Vs.Sven dispute"):
> > On Mon, Nov 27, 2006 at 11:46:46AM +0000, Ian Jackson wrote:
> > > Note that the TC makes decisions only as a last resort.  This means
> > > that for any high profile question brought to the TC the TC members
> > > are fairly likely to have seen prior discussion, formed an opinion,
> > > and participated as individuals.
> > 
> > Probably. But there is a difference between having seen prior discussion or
> > even participated in the discussion, and having taken full position in favour
> > of one of the parties, and repeteadly took position in a fully one-sided way.
> I don't think that we should be trying to make that distinction.  To
> do so would just be to prevent TC members from engaging fully in
> discussions that might reach the committee.

If the TC members make every effort to be actually objective in the discussion
and decision, then it is fine, but i have some doubts about this.

This is the same kind of sick situation, which Anthony setup, so that Frans is
at the same time party, has full power over the situation, and on top of that
is setup as judge of my behaviour.

Do you really want to reproduce this in the TC ? You yourself have showed some
one-sidedness in your first proposal. I understand that this may be due to
anger at me bringing again the issue to the public, but do you really think
you are being objective in this ? 

Also, i want to point you to a mail by Alex Fernandez :

  Message-ID: <2110ee000611260645o2a0ce262haeb790d70758f3bf@mail.gmail.com>
  My humble opinion as an occassional user of Debian-powerpc.

  One of the selling points of Free Software in general, and Debian in
  particular, is that the people doing the coding are the people in
  charge. If this fails to happen then the decision process must be

  I have not followed the discussion in full (I only read
  debian-powerpc), but in this case it looks like Sven is doing the
  coding and other people are trying to tell him what to do and not to
  do. This is really hurting Debian in the mid- and long-term. Please,
  please find a way to work together. Debian is the finest distro around
  for administration, and hardware support should also be first class.

And leave this to your meditation.

> > Participate in discussion, not fully taking party with one side.
> Participating in a discussion often _does_ involve coming to a
> conclusion that one side is right and then arguing for that side.

There is a difference between participating in a discussion, and fully taking
side, not hearing the arguments of the other side, which i feel is what
happened here.

> It would be bad if TC members felt they had a choice between that kind
> of full participation in discussions, and their participation in the
> same decisions if and when they get to the TC.

As long as they are objective, this is fine. I have seen very few people who
had a say in this issue being objective about it.

> > Yes, but in this case, i feel that there is a huge risk that the taking of
> > position will imply that those folk are not able to be receptive to the
> > arguments of the other party.
> I'm afraid I disagree and you'll just have to live with it.  Steve has
> decided not to recuse himself and I haven't seen anyone else on the TC
> disagree with that decision.

Fine, what can i say. I hope for your concience that you will tell him when
you feel he is not being objective.


Sven Luther

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