Re: 新增《星际译王词典数据包 stardict-dic-data》，本人推荐的 Linux 桌面词典软件，给 Debian 打包
On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 8:16 PM Andrew Lee <ajqlee@debian.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Emfox and Boyuan,
> (Cc'ed to jbicha@debian.org as he has done the NMUs)
>
> I have no time and no interests on this package anymore since it more on DFSG-free license issues rather than packaging issue that needs to talk to upstream.
> Feel free to take over the maintainership of this package from me.
>
> Best regards,
> -Andrew
>
> Emfox Zhou <emfoxzhou@gmail.com> 於 2019年11月21日 週四 上午9:45寫道：
>>
>> 接手就算了，stardict 历史悠久，里面各个软件工具错综复杂，就刚刚你讲的这个exe问题就几乎是无解的，除非自己按功能重写一遍……
>> 既然提到了，我最近有空看能不能把那几个RC的bug搞一搞，NMU啥的还是可以的嘛
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 21, 2019 at 5:23 AM Boyuan Yang <byang@debian.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> 在 2019-11-20三的 15:45 +0800，Emfox Zhou写道：
>>> > 其实这一块Debian对于软件维护者的保护有些过了，维护者三五个月不理会严重等级的bug，MIA大半年，都没什么影响，而新人想
>>> > 要接手，流程却很麻烦，要不断地确认，NMU也好直接参与维护也好，稍有不小心就会被人说aggressive。
>>> > 算了不多说了，这些是社区长期的传统，也没啥好抱怨的，只是顺便吐个槽。
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 2:57 PM Liang Guo <bluestonechina@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > > On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 1:06 PM Emfox Zhou <emfoxzhou@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > > >
>>> > > > stardict 有两位DD做为维护者，我们直接去插手没有必要吧……
>>> > > > 我很早以前维护过几个stardict的英汉和汉英的词典包，但是因license不明的问题又被踢出Debian了。
>>> > > >
>>> > > 有很多DD应为各种原因，没有使自己维护的软件包处于很好的状态，这时候如果有人愿意帮忙维护相关的软件包，很多人还是很欢迎的。
>>>
>>> 只针对 stardict 这个软件来说：我和 foka 在2018年邮件联系过，如果有哪位对修 bug
>>> 或者继续维护软件感兴趣的话接手是没问题的，这次绝对不会被人称为 aggressive。本封邮件抄送两位维护者。
>>>
>>> 目前 stardict 软件上游混杂了授权不明的各种二进制文件（例如 .exe 文件），对其进行剔除、以及对新版 mariadb 的支持会是工作的重点。
>>>
>>> 对于词典数据包：个人看法是词典数据来源不明的问题是最危险的，如果公开提供了被原作者禁止分发（重分发）的数据的话就不仅仅是 non-free
>>> 的问题，而是被发现会直接吃官司的问题。其它具体的技术手段，包括是否使用 wget | sh
>>> 的方式进行安装以及安全性等等都是次要问题。如果有哪位感兴趣的话可以对本串邮件中提及的软件仓库中的 deb
>>> 包解包研究一下，我个人看法是至少金山公司直接前来提告是一点问题都没有的。
>>>
>>> 提供 non-free 的软件或数据并不是洪水猛兽，不同软件具体的许可证限制可能五花八门，但上游允许重分发是底线，这也是 Debian 的 non-free
>>> 仓库所遵循的条件之一。
>>>
>>> --
>>> Boyuan Yang
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Emfox Zhou
>>
>> GnuPG Public Key: 0x10000DEB
>
>
>
> --
> -Andrew
Dear all, 大家好：
Thank you for all your discussions, 感谢大家热烈的讨论。
About Faris's (@atzlinux) initial post about sharing 3rd-party (non
Debian-released) StarDict dictionary data packages, I would simply see
it as "resource sharing" by an end user, and thus I would neither
discourage or encourage it.
关于 Faris (@atzlinux) 当初分享的“第三方”（非 Debian 发布的) 星际译王词典数据包，我想简单视之为一个普通
end user 的 “资源分享”的“便民服务”，所以我不会特别“支持”或者“不支持”。
However, since the source and "legality of distribution" of the
dictionary data are "unclear", the Debian Project can never include
such data, not even in non-free, and can never endorse them. A random
post here on debian-chinese(-gb) is OK, but we cannot mention or
promote this on Debian websites.
不过，因为这些词典数据的来源和“发布的合法性”存疑，Debian Project 自然不可能打包这些数据，连放进去 non-free
都不可以，所以在 Debian Project 的角度来看自然是无法认可的。在 debian-chinese(-gb)
邮件列表偶尔一封邮件讲一下无所谓，但 Debian 的各个网站等就不可能提及甚或推广了。
Of course, there is the danger of "curl/wget" fetching and running a
shell script as root, etc. All I could say is: exercise common sense;
end users beware.
当然啦，关于用 root 盲目执行从网上 curl/wget 下载的脚本，我只能说：终端用户该有相关的安全意识，慎重。
If I understand correctly, the current issues with StarDict is not so
much with the engine itself (already packaged in Debian), but with the
lack dictionary data that we could legally include within Debian.
据我的有限理解，目前 Debian 中的 StarDict 相关问题，主要不在已经 Debian
打包的词典引擎本身，而是在于缺乏可以合法地包含进 Debian 的词典数据包。
In recent years, I have had the chance of using some open-source based
dictionaries, for example, moedict.tw (Ministry of Education of
Taiwan), words.hk (a community-organized Cantonese on-line
dictionary), as well as Pleco the mobile app which contains several
open-source Chinese/English-Chinese/Chinese-English dictionaries, and
these are probably the correct ways to have legal and
free-to-distribute dictionary data included within Debian
out-of-the-box. 我近年有机会接触到一些比较自由公开的词典，例如 moedict.tw 萌典、words.hk
粵典、Pleco 手机应用中的一些免费而且开源的中文/汉英/英汉词典数据，可能这些才是让 Debian
能自带合法并且可以自由发布的词典数据的唯一正确出路，也是真正的“便民”之计。
Kudos to moedict.tw and g0v.tw for spearheading such open-source
efforts, see https://www.moedict.tw/about.html for example where much
of the dictionary data is available under the "CC BY-ND 3.0 TW"
license: https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/3.0/tw/deed.en
感谢“萌典”和“零时政府”等项目牵头类似的开源工程，见 https://www.moedict.tw/about.html。;
While the NoDerivs is not good for Debian "main", but perhaps good for
"non-free", or perhaps even the possibility of downloading such "CC
BY-ND" dictionary data from within StarDict. After all it is legal.
虽然 "CC BY-ND 3.0 TW" 的“禁止改作” 使进入 Debian "main" 不可能，但进入 "non-free"
应该是可以的。万一真的不行，就从 StarDict 中让用户直接下载，毕竟是完全合法的嘛。
Last but not least, I am glad that Emfox voiced his frustration about
the difficulty of newcomers trying to contribute, and that Boyang
responded encouraging such contributions. I am even more gladdened by
the fact that Emfox found our StarDict git repository on Salsa
https://salsa.debian.org/debian/stardict , pushed a commit, and even
uploaded a new release! Great job Emfox!
Now that Andrew had just orphaned the package in
https://bugs.debian.org/945198 (Thank you for all the great work you
have done to this package over the years, Andrew.), and seeing how
well Debian's team-maintained packages work nowadays, do you all think
it is a good idea to set the StarDict's debian/control Maintainer to
"Debian Chinese Team"? (Should we ask the Salsa support team to move
the repository from https://salsa.debian.org/debian/stardict to
https://salsa.debian.org/chinese-team/stardict too?) All team members
are invited to contribute to the Salsa stardict repository directly or
via merge requests; and for frequent uploaders, you are welcome to add
your own name to the Uploaders list in debian/control too. What do
you think?
Cheers,
Anthony
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