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Re: Re: Debian BSD.. cool idea



Dan Papasian writes:
 > On Tue, Feb 01, 2000 at 02:26:16PM -0500, Jeff Sheinberg wrote:
 > > The Debian package maintainer insures that upgrading mySQL from a
 > > prior version goes smoothly.
 > > 
 > > The Debian package maintainer insures that replacing mySQL with a
 > > package of equivalent functionality goes smoothly.
 > > 
 > > The Debian package maintainer insures that completely removing the
 > > mySQL package goes smoothly.
 > 
 > What do you think the port maintainer does?

So, show me the port for sendmail.

 > 
 > > Just try to upgrade sendmail, or horrors of horrors, replace it
 > > with exim, on your BSD box.  Note - replace means remove it
 > > _completely_, then install a replacement like exim.
 > > 
 > > Yes, sendmail is part of the BSD base system.  You have to hack
 > > the rc scripts to remove it.  You have to take special care that
 > > all of your carefully crafted configuration files are saved
 > > somewhere _before_ you dare upgrade it on a BSD system.
 > 
 > Well, sendmail is in the base OS, yes.  So you'll have to add
 > sendmail_enable="NO" to rc.conf or whatnot, not a big hack.
 > 
 > And for deleting it, I'm not sure where the baggage is besides the
 > actual binary.

The Debian package maintainer takes care of these `insignificant
details'.  Since there is no BSD port of sendmail, voila, no
`insignificant details' to worry about.

 > 
 > > Strange, you brag about the freedom of the BSD license, but when
 > > someone proposes to play with your little toy with its neon `play
 > > with me tag', you immediately begin to scream that your toy is
 > > about to be violated by a rapist!
 > 
 > I'm not too sure what you are talking about.
 > 
 > Wanting to prevent a fork at any level is logical.

As soon as BSD removes sendmail from the base system, and makes it
into a port there will be no `fork', and as long as one can then
remove the sendmail port, or cleanly upgrade the sendmail port,
and/or replace it with, eg, the exim port.

And just one other `minor' requirement to prevent a `fork' -
remove the compile time dependencies from the base programs upon
the currently installed BSD kernel.

Ironically, if you guys just thought about it a little, and
cleaned up the current situation in BSD as I am suggesting, then
BSD would be much better off for it.  And then debian-bsd would
just wither away and die.

 > 
 > Strangely enough, if you were talking about forking FreeBSD into a
 > commerical product, I probably wouldn't care.
 > 
 > But when you are willing to work along the same lines, but just
 > in a different direction, you want to know what cna be done to readjust
 > the attitude so that we are all working on one thing, instead of splitting it.
 > 
 > -Dan

It seems to me that your definition of `fork' means any
non-commercial use of BSD that is in any way different from the
`official' BSD releases.

-- 
Jeff Sheinberg  <jeffsh@erols.com>


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