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Re: Testing cdebootstrap and debootstrap

Petter Reinholdtsen wrote:
> The following 55 packages was not installed by cdebootstrap, but
> installed by debootstrap:
>   apt-utils at bsdmainutils cpio cron dhcp-client ed exim4 exim4-base
>   exim4-config exim4-daemon-l fdutils gcc-3.2-base gettext-base
>   groff-base ifupdown info ipchains iptables libdb2 libgcrypt1
>   libgcrypt7 libgdbm3 libgnutls7 libgpg-error0 libident liblockfile1
>   liblzo1 libopencdk8 libpcap0.7 libpcre3 libssl0.9.7 libtasn1-0
>   libtextwrap1 libwrap0 logrotate mailx man-db manpages mbr nano
>   net-tools netbase ppp pppconfig pppoe pppoeconf procps psmisc slang1
>   syslinux tasksel tcpd telnet wget

Hmm, I have run some pretty stripped down debian systems, including one
in 32 mb of flash, and there's quite a lot of stuff here I never
considered removing for a minute.

Several of the packages in the above list are Priority required, and
I feel they should not be removed from the debian base system while they
have that priority, as our documentation documents Required packages as
packages whose removal will make the the system be "totally broken".
Even if that's not true for all of them, consistency is important.
This includes procps, varying gccs and mbr.

> Of these, I guess at least a few should be installed by cdebootstrap
> as well.  Here are my suggestions.  I believe some tools should be
> included by default to make the installed system nicer, and to make
> sure problems can be fixed when they occur.
>   apt-utils        - to get all debconf questions in one block
>   nano             - an editor is needed to fix problems
>   at cron mailx info
>   logrotate
>   manpages, man-db - all debian-systems should have these by default. :)
>   mbr              - nice to have if the MBR need replacement

I have never seen the point of the mbr package, but whatever. ;-)

Agree with the rest of your list.

I would be very suprised to find a unix-like system without write

If you install cron, etc, it will drag in a mta, and approximatly 50% of
the list of what's left out.. And we've had the discussion about it on
-devel, during/after DebConf 3, and decided Debian base does currently
include a mta.

Without gettext-base, base-config will not be properly localised.

Without ifupdown, our current nice automated second-stage install of
debian over the network will not work anymore. That would be bad.

dhclient is debatable; d-i sometimes knows enough to install it or not,
but does not in some scenarios and should always install it then.

I have not checked the base system for documentation available only as
info pages, but I suspect there is some, and so we should include a
reader, as we do for man and html pages.

Without pppconfig and ppp, installs from one debian CD + ppp will be
impossible (or hard) in base-config. Similarly, pppoe is needed
for scanarios involing DSL, etc.

Without tasksel, base-config will continue to work, but a lot of people
will find it difficult to use aptitude to install tasks, so we need to
keep tasksel.

procps is necessary for basic system administration tasks, like killing
runaway processes. Some of psmisc is also rather commonly used, though
less so.

Users will be suprised not to have wget available, I predict. It's used
in lots of bare-metal disaster recovery scenarios.

Including logrotate probably saves more time and space than it uses, in
the long run. I include support time on debian-user answering "why did
my root filesystem fill up?" questiions..

Surely tcpd should be included by default; it improves security and
I suspect some packages that depend on it don't list the dependency.

I have no problem with removing cpio, syslinux, ed, fdutils, any gcc we
can, ipchains/tables, possibly mailx, and possibly telnet.

> If the list of packages installed by cdebootstrap do not match the
> list of packages installed by debootstrap, we will discover a lot of
> missing dependencies, which have never been discovered before because
> the packages were always installed earlier.  See #229461 and #230641
> for a few such examples discovered already.

Yep. I think that these kinds of changes, which effectively change what
is part of the base debian system, need to be discussed by debian as a
whole on deban-devel.

see shy jo

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