Re: Woody Installation
On Sun, Sep 08, 2002 at 07:06:34PM +0200, Axel Schlicht wrote:
> Tollef Fog Heen wrote:
> Hi Tollef
> Thanks for the extremely fast answer.
> > You can choose kernels etc by choosing which CD to use.
> But then you have to know which kernel is on which CD. So here, too, a
> short note would be helpful (like kernel xxx on CD yyy)
I am pretty sure this is explained in the installmanual on your CD and on
the web. BTW, why is there no german translation on the web?
http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch-install-methods.en.html#s-kernel-choice
> Shouldn't lp alone do the work. Normally I compile my own kernel, but
> without sources...
I think you should read the installmanual first, I have no idea whats
written in that book. You have some basic misunderstandings. The source CDs
contain the source from which all deb packages were built, you only need
them if you want to recompile packages yourself. So the typical user (and
even the typical debian developer) does not need the source CDs, but they
have to be available for license reasons. However, since the typical user
compiles his own kernel, you find kernel-source packages on your CDs, ie
kernel-source-2.4.18, which you can use, preferably together with the
kernel-package package, to build your own kernel-image (the official
kernel-images are built from the kernel-image source package, which require
the respective kernel-source package and maybe a kernel-patch package to be
installed, so the kernel-image source package is on the source CD, the
kernel-image binary package is on your CD, the kernel-source source package
is on the source CD, the kernel-source binary (binary-all) package is on the
binary CDs, simple isn't it?).
I would say a reasonable amount of thinking went into the whole debian
system, if something is not the way I expect it to be, I'd suspect an error
on my end first before blaming debian for it.
> > You installed base and said no to dselect and tasksel, that means you
> > have a minimal system.
> I always thought less was the preferred pager in Linux, so I would
> rather expect it than more.
more is part of the base system, less is not, so if you only have a minimal
system installed, you do not have less (yet).
> Where to find them (debian specific) if you don't know where to start
> looking.
> Serious question.
www.debian.org (obvious?)
click on Documentation/ Release Info
click on stable, click on
Before installing Debian, please read the "Installation Manual". The
Installation Manual for your target architecture contains instructions and
links for all the files you need to install.
Too hard to find? Actually there is a link from the main page:
If you'd like to start using Debian, you can easily obtain a copy, and then
follow the "installation instructions" to install it.
> No that I am planning to move over for good, I have to install more
> stuff and will also see more points where _I_ think more information
> will be helpful. I wouldn't call this throwing shit - at least that was
> never intended.
I did not read your first message thouroghly, but I think you tried to
configure too many things in one go. Why didn't you install a base system
first and then configure the system too your needs. Typically you do not
need the printer or scanner to work when you install the _base_ system, you
can play with that later (and roll your own custom kernel for the needed
drivers, if they are not in the install kernel). In case you did not install
a module during the initial install, you do not have to start from scratch
again, the modules are all on your system, they are just not loaded. You can
load them with modprobe or insmod, and later add them to:
/etc/modules: kernel modules to load at boot time.
> > | What happens if you accidentally hit no. Will the next scan delete the
> > I suggest you use dselect or aptitude, since you know what you want
> > and don't want.
> But the big question is: What's it called and where is it. As the
dselect, aptitude or tasksel?
> CD-structure has greatly changed from a task / field-oriented to a
> first_letter_of_app_name-structure it's quite difficult to search no.
> apt-cache might not always be helpful.
You typicall do not search on the CD for programs, thats what dselect and
friends are for.
> > | So let's try X only. (And have fun afterwards lloking for all the apps
> > | one by one)
> > | Eh? X installs bc, biff, binutils, bison, cpp, ispell, cpp, gdb?
> > | Strange.
> > Why is that strange?
> I didn't expect them in X
they are not _in_ X, but xfree86 is not only one package, it depends on
several other packages and the one or other package requires (or suggests)
one of the packages you mentioned. If you use dselect to install packages,
you should be able to see what packages require. And if you try to unselect
one of those packages, it will tell you which package needs/recommends it.
> > | xdm? I don't want any graphical login.
> > Then don't install xdm.
> I never asked for them. During another installation (on my laptop) I was
> presented a menu from which to choose a gdm without a choice to say no,
> thanks, don't want this. Somehow it seems to default to installing a
> gdm.
Maybe you installed the X Window task? Nothing will be installed on your
system that you did not pick, or that none of the packages you picked,
requires, maybe recommends.
> Where? And (once again) how do I find out if and where something is
> written?
Please read the installation manual, its on one of the virtual consoles.
> > Then I suggest you sit down and write that documentation. Scratch
> > your own itch.
> I would be willing to do so, but as I hate programming, I won't read
writing documentation is not the same as programming. If you think the
Installation Manual is not good enough, you are welcome to provide
improvements. The people that made the installation system typically do not
need the installation manual since they performed so many installations,
that it all makes sense to them. Its not easy to forget everything you know.
You are having the problems, you should read the manual and suggest
improvements.
> source code. If the programmers did provide at least a short (and
> complete) list of keywords and an outline of the way they intend their
> programs to work + how to find that list, I should be starting out quite
> soon.
For somebody installing debian it is not necessary to know how each
individual function works, you want to know how to install. This is covered
in the Installation Manual.
> In closing.
> Imagine somebody new to Linux. Wouldn't you too like Linux to be easier
> to install. the more information you find during installation, the
> easier it will be to install. Information available AFTER you installed
> will not be accessible while you install. So my plea here is to provide
> more of it during installation.
The Installation Manual on your CD comes in html, txt and maybe even pdf and
other formats. If you have a computer with an OS and a CD-Rom drive, you
should be able to read that. Also there are the online manuals. And you do
read the manual _before_ you try set set up a new electronic gadget, don't
you?
Christian
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