Woody Installation
Hi installation masters.
This is my experience (dismal, bleak, sad, devastating, frustrating
experience) with woody or rather the attempted installation thereof.
The even sadder story on my laptop will soon follow.
One short remark. Knoppix (one of the first versions) runs absolutely
smoothely on the here mentioned PC as well as on my Laptop; woody simply
doesn't (that is X doesn't).
I hope the following (still spiced with frustration and disappointment)
may help to discover / eliminate any bugs. With no source code available
and me despising programming, I can only report the results, not offer
any hints on what may be causing the problems.
(Should I sound to p*ed of, take this as an indicator of how frustrated
I am)
With M$ getting more and more arrogant (taking the right to install /
disable anything they think - well I wouldn't insist on M$ thinking,
but couldn't think of a better word - appropriate) I would like to do
the complete change to Linux.
Well, the other day (in fact for the last 4 days) I tried to install
Woody and did a rm -rf afer a couple of hours. Even more disappointing
than Potato. (The last one installing smoothely was 2.0)
So let's reiterate (and relive) that terrible / dismal experience and
reporting it as I try and do another install.
For starters, my system configuration
Award Medallion Bios v6.0, 2000
ASUS P3B-F ACPI Bios Revision 1005
PIII (Coppermine, stepping 03), 650 MHz, 256K cache (8 way)
DRAM Type : 256 MB SDRAM
SPD on Module : Yes
Data-Integrity : Non-ECC
IDE_0
- Master: IBM IC35L040AVER07-0 -> /dev/hda (40G) UDMA2
- Slave : IBM IC35L040AVVA07-0 -> /dev/hdb (40G) UDMA2
IDE_1
- Master: Maxtor 2B020H1 -> /dev/hdc (20G) UDMA2
- Slave : Pioneer DVD-ROM Atapi DVD-105S 0111 -> /dev/hdd (DVD) UDMA2
PCI
- Graphic Adapter : Matrox Millenium G400 AGP
Chip : Matrox G400
DAC : internal, Maximal RAMDAC : 300 MHz
Memory : 32 MB SGRAM
Dual Head capable
- Net : Realtek
Realtek RTL-8029 at I/O 0xb800, IRQ 12
- SCSI
Adaptec Aha2490 Adapter, Bios v1,23, 1996
- ID #0: IBM DCAS-34330 -> /dev/sda (Drive C: (80h) (4 G)
- ID #5: Plextor CD-ROM PX-32TS -> /dev/sr0
- ID #6: CyberDrv CD-ROM TW240S -> /dev/sr1 (Teac 24x drive)
- ID #7: SCSI-CD Rewritable-2x2x6 -> /dev/sr2
- ID #7: Aha-2940
ISA:
- Card-01: Creative VIBRA16C PnP (fully SB16 compatible)
IRQs and stuff
Bus_No Device_No Func_No Vendor_Id Device_ID
Device_Class IRQ
0 4 1 8086 7111 IDE
Controller 14/15
0 4 2 8086 7112 Serial bus
controller NA
0 11 0 9004 7178 Mass storage
controller 10
0 13 0 10EC 8029 Network
Controller 12
1 0 0 102B 0525 Display
Controller 11
Serial Ports : ttyS0 : IRQ 4, 3F8,
ttyS1 : IRQ 3, 2F8
Parallel Ports : IRQ 7, 378
Floppy : 1, 3.5", 1.44 MB
Boot order : SCSI -> IDE -> Floppy. With /dev/sr0 being first in line.
Monitor : Panasonic TX-2103MA (21")
can do up to 1280 x 1024 at 63.7 khz horizontal, 60 hz
vertical
horizontal range : 30 - 64 khz
vertical range : 50 - 90 hz
You, rather I, unpack the CDs, notice that we no longer need sources,
call the maker (Linuxland, Munich, Germany) and are told that they are
setting up a list of those interested in sources and - by the end of
next week - will actually start burning them for a small fee. Nice, but
that means that I won't be able to create my own kernel afterwards.
Weird to sell Linux without sources.
Now, after inserting CD#1 into /dev/sr0 we are greeted by this charming
and encouraging little message:
(If it fails try the other CDs)
ISOLINUX 1.67/debian-cd 2002-05-14 isolinux: Loading spec packet, trying
to wing it...
isolinux; Failed to locate CD-ROM device; boot failed
So Debian is still unable to boot from a mixed system, i. e. starting
from a scsi-device with ide-devices present. Will work the other way
round. No problem with windoze, OS/2 et. al. in such a situation.
(not a new bug, present since at least 2.0 (hamm? slink?)
So now we try CD #2
Whow, now we get a welcome screen
and - via F3 - are presented with a few options:
linux, ramdisk{0,1}, floppy{0,1}, and rescue. Not much of a choice for
kernels.
I could go on here (and already did so in the first try) just to find
out that lilo is still unable to write to the correct hard disk in a
mixed system (see above).
So, the old game again: diable ide ports AND set all hds to 'none'.
Inserting CD#1 again and .... rebooting
same result, very strange. (Debian based Knoppix e. g. would have no
problem here).
Yuck.
So CD#2
accepting default (linux)
and we get:
modprobe: modprobe: Can't open dependencies file
/lib/modules/2.2.20/modules.dep
(No such file or directory)
And now the first splash screen
... boot-floppies version 3.0.23
... built on 2002-05-15 by Adam Di Carlo
As I had to disable all drives except /dev/hda I'll have to to without a
swap drive.
...
Mounting /dev/sda4
Install Kernel and Driver Modules : pressed enter : skipped by install
routine (not good)
Select Installation Medium : CD-Rom chosen
Jumped back to Install Kernel and Driver Modules : pressed enter
Jumped back to Select Installation Medium : pressed enter
Select CD-ROM drive
/dev/sr{0,1,2} : /dev/sr0 chosen
Select Debian Archive Path : list chosen
(forgot I used CD#2 to boot, still in drive)
error message : can't find ...
Back to
Install Kernel and Driver Modules
changed CD for CD#1
enter, skipped again by install routine
Found a Debian CD-ROM
Finally found drivers (what about telling users which CD to insert for
modules?)
+ nec2k--pci : OK
+ sb : OK
Enter command-Line arguments (What shall I enter here. not the
slightest hints)
SB 4.13 detected OK (220)
sb: interrupt test on IRQ7 failed, Probable IRQ conflict.
BUT: installation succeeded.
Very strange.
1. IRQ 7 ist for lp0 (lp1) : first printer port. Why should anybody
assign this to sb.
2. How can I assign another IRQ (like the more reasonable IRQ 5)
3. I Want to print without polling, so IRQ 7 is mandatory.
So far I have always compiled my own kernel (just for this reason, but
without any sources I can't but use modules)
So second attempt
Command-Line-Arguments
irq=5
Error message: I/O, IRQ, and DMA are mandatory... installation failed
How do I separate entries? Commata, spaces, semicola, cola ?????
Now, sb16 requires TWO DMA-adresses 1 AND 5), TWO ports (220 AND 330)
How to enter this?
/usr/doc/sb* /usr/cod/soundblaster* does not exist.
/usr/doc/modconf only contains changelog.gz and copyright (one out ot
a few thousand, wouldn't a link suffice)
not much more in /usr/share/doc
So no information on how to provide command line parameters. Extremely
bad.
Trying irq=5 dma=1,5 port=220,330
error message too many values for dma (max 1). Strange. We need two.
Trying irq=5 dma=1 port=220,330 (hope 1 is correct)
error message: invalid parameter parm_port
Trying irq=5 dma=1,5 parm_port=220,330
error message: invalid parameter parm_parm_port
Trying irq=5 dma=1,5 parm_port=220
error message: invalid parameter parm_port
Trying irq=5 dma=1,5 io=220
error message: sb_card: I/O port dc is already in use (dc ?????
16^d + c = 220 Aaaaah)
Trying irq=5 dma=1,5 io=0x220
Installation succeeded
Hey folks. This is just sick. Now, you have to be a C-programmer to
solve such a problem. I hate programming (testing and documentation is
fun, programming is just sick). How do you expect Johnny user to figure
this out? Why not tell users how to enter parameters?
+ nls_cp437 : OK
+ vfat : OK
(No description available) : That's a joke, isn't it
+ nfs : OK
(No description available) : That's a joke, isn't it
usb-section : error-message for 0.0001 sec, please allow more time for
the older (over 20) guys like me. Just wanted to see what usb might be
offering.
/etc/modules now is:
unix ???? where from and what
af_packet ???? where from and what
ne2k-pci
nls_cp437
vfat
nfs
sb
(where does it hide the parameters to sb????
Searching for files with almost the same datestamp as /etc/modules->
/etc/modules/conf)
Couldn't the first line of /etc/modules be something like
... all parameters are in /etc/modules.conf )
Network
Hostname : dorei
DHCP / BOOTP : no I only have a few PC's connected.
So /etc/hosts should suffice.
IP-Adress : 192.168.0.2
-> netmask : 255.255.255.0
Gateway : 192.168.0.1
Domain name : <blank> Do I need a domain name?
DNS Server address : <blank> With several ISPs, how do I enter
DNS addresses?
??? where are all those data written to, why don't the respective boxes
mention this?
Install base system.
Select Installation Medium (didn't we have that before and before ...)
Archive path (only one available) : /instmnt
Make system bootable
lilo -> /dev/sda4
Ignore all
Reboot (no floppy)
enable IDE-drives
Reboot
Vamos -> Lilo
lilo 22.2
ide : all DMA
Error Messages:
scsi <fdomain> Detection failed (no card)
NCR53c416a : no availanble ports found
sym53c416.c: version 1.0.0
Failed initialization of WD-7000 SCSI card
IBM MCA SCSI: Version 3.2
IBM MCA SCSI: No Microchannel-bus present --> Aborting
This machine does not have any IBM MCA-bus
megaraid; v1.11 (Aug 23,2000)
aec671x_detect:
3ware Storage Controller device driver for Linux v1.02.00.008.
3w-xxxx: tw_findcards(): No cards found.
So, Linux seems to scan for several scsi-adapters. How to disable this?
scsi0 : Adaptec AHA274x/284x/294x (EISA(VLB/PCI-Fast SCSI) 5.1.33/3.2.4
<Adaptec AHA-294X SCSI host adapter>
scsi : 1 host
Vendor : IBM Model: DCAS-34330 Rev: S65A
Type Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 02
Detected scsi disk sda at scsi0, channel 0, id 0, lun 0
Vendor: PLEXTOR Model: CD-ROM PX-32TS Rev: 1.01
Type : CD-ROM ANSI SCSI revision: 02
Detected scsi CD-ROM sr0 at scsi0, channel 0, id 4, lun 0
Vendor: CyberDrv Model: CD-ROM TW240S Rev: 1.40
Type : CD-ROM ANSI SCSI revision: 02
Detected scsi CD-ROM sr1 at scsi0, channel 0, id 5, lun 0
Vendor: PLEXTOR Model: CD-ROM Rewritable-2x2x6 Rev: 2.00
Type : CD-ROM ANSI SCSI revision: 02
Detected scsi CD-ROM sr2 at scsi0, channel 0, id 6, lun 0
scsi : detected 3 SCSI cdroms 1 SCSI disk total
...
sr0: NOT LISTED, WHY ?????
sr1: scsi3-mmc drive: 24x/24x cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray
sr2 scsi3-mmc drive: 2x/6x writer cd/rw xa/form2 cdda tray
Partition check
sda: sda1 sda2 sda3 sda4
hda: hda1 < hda5 hda6 hda7 hda8 hda9 hda10 hda11 > hda2
hdb: hdb1 < hdb5 hdb6 hdb7 hdb8 hdb9 hdb10 hdb11 >
hdc: [PTBL] [2491/255/63] hdc1 < hdc5 hdc6 hdc7 >
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What's that? Why? Seems to be Partition table / CHS, but why?
insmod: modprobe: cannot create /var/log/ksymoops/20020908.log Read-only
file system
insmod: /libs/modules/2.2.20/misc/unix.o: cannot create
/var/log/ksymoops/20020908121553.ksyms Read-only file sestem
insmod: /libs/modules/2.2.20/misc/unix.o: cannot create
/var/log/ksymoops/20020908.log Read-only file sestem
is this serious?
...
Loading modules:
unix af_packet ne2k-pci ne2k-pci.c: v1.02 for Linux 2.2 ....
??? af_packet: what's that, who installed that?
nek2k-pci.c: PCI NE2000 clone 'Realtek RTL-8029' at I/O 0xb800, IRQ 12
eth0: RealTek RTL-8029 found at 0xb800, IRQ12, MAC-Address
sb Soundblaster audio driver Coipyright ...
SB 4.13 detected OK (220)
sb: interrupt test on IRQ7 failed - probable IRQ conflict
nls_cp437 vfat nfs
/proc/modules
sb 32456 0 (unused)
uart401 5872 0 [sb]
sound 56384 0 [sb uart401]
soundlow 384 0 [sound]
soundcore 2452 5 [sb sound]
usb-uhci 18220 0 (unused)
usbcore 43920 0 [usb-uhci]
* ide-scsi 7060 0
* parport_probe 3360 0 (autoclean)
* parport_pc 7276 1 (autoclean)
lp 4580 0 (autoclean)
* parport 6852 1 (autoclean) [parport_probe parport_pc
lp]
* pcmcia_core 45824 0
nfs 71180 0 (unused)
lockd 42420 0 [nfs]
* sunrpc 57816 0 [nfs lockd]
vfat 9428 0
nls_cp437 3896 1
ne2k-pci 4240 1
8390 5944 0 [ne2k-pci]
af_packet 6152 0 (unused)
unix 11352 5 (autoclean)
Why ide-scsi? Never asked for that. The only DVD drive may also be
accessed through directly.
Sunrpc? What's that
Pcmcia? Didn't we remove Pcmcia during intallation?
Parport? I only want to print thru my parallel port. No scanners, No
CD-ROMs, nothing else.
What can I delete?
Debian System Configutarion
...
just run /usr/sbin/base-config
Just imagine, all thoes usesful bits of information stored in a nice
text file. If Possible with something like: You installed xxx, config
files are yyyy config programs are zzzz format of config files (no man
pages as usual) can be found at aaaaa, the following errors occured
during install bbbb, to solve them run cccc or edit dddd. Wouldn't this
be just great?
Writing down /usr/base/config (hoping not to lose slip of paper)
No GMT -> Europe/Berlin
md5 passwords enabled
shadow passwords enabled
create user
Q: How secure are passwords like 'I1,just4.want4 in2 No_of_Chars11'. Can
they easily be cracked too? (Meaningful sentence + special chars on the
same key on all keyboards)
delete PCMCIA
No PPP for installing
Apt-Configuration
/dev/cdrom : yuck : changed to /mnt/cd32 = /dev/sr0
fstab : /dev/sr0 /mnt/cd32 iso9660 ro,user,noauto 0 0
mount /mnt/cd32 works
entering /mnt/cd32 in Ap-config causes error-message : /mnt/cd32 no
block device
mounting /mnt/cd32 solves this problem, but apt-config is skipped (very
bad)
No way back.
How do I configure it now?
So
run tasksel -> no
run dselect -> no
mail : no configuration, not decided what will be necessary. Will ask in
further posting.
login
man apt
man apt-cache
yucck, pager is more, no less installed (extremely bad)
man apt.conf
man apt-config
apropos apt -> apt : nothing appropriate (that's ridiculous)
Nothing tells me how to create apt.conf. As there was a graphical
interface in the install program, it would be nice if it could be used
outside the installation process.
cd /usr/share/doc/apt
cat guide.text.gz | gzip -d | more
doesn't yield anything useful either. So, how do I now create apt.conf?
The sample under /usr/share/doc/apt/examples/apt.conf however does not
contain any references to any files. So what to to.
General question:
How do I find out how to find out how to find out any information on
anything in Debian? I got the official handbook (by Linuxland) by
Michael Bramer, John Goerzen, Ossama Othman, pried at 20 Euro,
unfortunately in book form, should come on a roll, perforated and on
softer paper. Of course, it doesn't tell you how to do anything, but at
least, they could make some money, F buddy, sit down and don't you speak
up again.
So (thinking hard) I tried /usr/sbin/base-config (yep, I didn't lose
that piece of paper)
For some stupid reason it insists on /dev/cdrom (direct access to a dev
file, aaargh) which
points to /dev/scd0, why not to /dev/sr0 ???
How to get rid of ide-pci (might cause that scd0). And how to set up apt
so it will only access /mnt/sd32 (mount point for /dev/sr0).
And why do we have a /cdrom file. Shouldn't there be anything
superfluous in /? Same goes for kernel-links (vmlinuz ->
/boot/vmlinuz-2.2.20). Shouldn't they only be in /boot.
But apt insists on /cdrom. How can I change that to /mnt/cd32
Well now it runs, but defauts to NOT scanning another CD. Should be no
problem, after all Debian only consists of one CD and will never grow to
more than one.
What happens if you accidentally hit no. Will the next scan delete the
old file, wrongly append, will everything be fine. Documented where?
Apt Configuration : final question:
security updates : How to do? Shall I connect as root ?????
How to do this with a second PC set up as a gateway?
So it's 'no' for the moment.
Well, apt seems to be happy now, so let's run tasksel.
Aaargh
X window system : 3.* ? 4.* ? Task info won't tell.
Desktop environment : how to run anything except kde? Like fvwm,
blackbox etc.
Dialup : Why woffle? What do I need this for? I don't want to cache
anything.
Why is anacron in dialup, I would expect it in base.
So let's try X only. (And have fun afterwards lloking for all the apps
one by one)
Eh? X installs bc, biff, binutils, bison, cpp, ispell, cpp, gdb?
Strange.
xdm? I don't want any graphical login.
Binutils: Kernel link failure info. Nice. Affects which kernels? 2.2.*,
2.4.*
2.2.17 in Potato (2.2.r0) did link OK). Info should be saved to disk, so
scribbling down again.
less installs now? less part of X?????? Strange.
Locales: What does this do? Only prepare them? Changing anything? Change
the way programs run???
Do I need any ot them? When? What for?
So no info -> skip?
Configuring Locales?
Leave alone ? What does this mean. Why doesn't it tell me the current
locale?
What's none? Will my system run without a locale (if that's none's
meaning)
C?
Chosing C? (Might be damn stupid)
Tcpwrappers? What's that? What does it do? Documentation?
Where are they. Man ?????
SSH:
Do I need ssh 1? Sometimes? Never?
No idea, let's accept ssh 2 only.
SSH SUID: Well yes. (No idea what I'm doing here)
Will I need sshd in a small peer-to-peer network?
Let's say yes.
Xserver-common
Debconf
man debconf : no manual entry for debconf
So What is debconf, what does it do, what can it tell me, can I override
it / change it, how can I invoke it?
Only specific marked sections are handled by debconf...
Man Xwrapper : no manual entry for debconf
Apropos Xwrapper : nothing appropriate
Well, yes
Configuring Xserver-xfree84 with debconf
/etc/X11/XF86Config-4 : well, might really be X 4.x
let's say yes. How can I change this afterwards?
Select the server.
Nice. What do I chose here?
Whats nv, imstt, apm (power management???), sis?
Will mga be OK for a millenium 400?
Framebuffer ???
Yes
keyboard
-> xfree86
German keyboard -> pc105
layout -> de
keyboard variant?
Gurus only. Must have memorized all variants. No help given.
keyboard options:
See lots of files not yet installed.
Mouse port
com1: so /dev/ttyS0
let's try auto (It's a Logitec mouse, but have you ever been able to use
one of these using the logitec protocol?)
No LCD
Monitor : simple -> 21 inches or more
Modes 1024*768 only
24 bpp
and unpacking.
Asking for Linuxland Add-On CD? strange? Didn't ask for Openoffice et.
al.
finished.
startx (I'm still root)
(WW) Warning, couldn't open module mga_hal
(EE) MGA: failed to load module "mga_hal" (module does not exist, 0)
(II) MGA(0): Matrox HAL module not found - using builtin mode setup
instead
(--) MGA(0): Chipset: "mgag400"
(==) MGA(0): Using AGP 1x mode
(**) MGA(0): using framebuffer device
...
(EE) Screen)s) found, but none have a usable configuration.
Fatal server error:
No screens found.
Whow. What shall I do now, are there any setup programs?
What about:
Fatal server error:
No screens found in file /..../.../filename.
Use <this_program> to configure.
or
Sorry, there is no config program. Complete documentation of <filename>
format can be found here.
Enter / edit the following section.
Wouldn't that be just marvelous?
xf86cfg (I know there is this prog, will everybody trying to install
Debian know this? Most probably not)
Of course, the mouse does not work.
Using numpad mouse
arrow over mouse icon
Identifier Mouse0
Driver mouse
Option Protocol auto
Option Device /dev/mouse (didn't I say /dev/ttyS0)
Of course, using the numpad mouse you cannot select / change anything.
ls -l /dev/mouse
no such file or directory (aaaaargh)
CTRL-ALT-Backspace
cd /dev : ln -s ttyS0 mouse
xf86cfg
Whow, a working mouse.
Configure Keyboard 101-key (didn't I say 105) -> 105 key Intl
Keyboard Layout us (didn't I say de) -> de
Select Matrox Millenium G400
Monitor is a Panasonic TX.2103MA (21")
Select Monitor that can do 1280x1024 @ 60 Hz (horizontal sync 31.5 -
64.3), vertical sync 50-90
Expert (what's there). Let's click there. May still toggle expert view,
but can no longer quit program.
write configuration to /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XF86Config ???
shouldn't it write to /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 ???
(Answering no writes XF86Cionfig.new to /root. Also very strange).
Looks like xf86cfg cannot work on an existing config file. Always starts
at nothing. Very bad.
cp /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XF86Config /etc/X11/XF86Config-4
server runs, but with a wide black frame. xvidtune : bigger one not
supported by hardware. Strange, did work under 3.3.6.
(II) XINPUT: adding extended input devide Mouse0 (type: MOUSE)
(--) MOUSE0: PnP-detected protocol: MouseMan
Could not list font path element /usr/X11R6/lib/fonts/speedo/ removing
from list!
Could not list font path element /usr/X11R6/lib/fonts/Type1/ removing
from list!
How do I find out the current resolution????? Fonts are way to small,
how to change?
And twm is way too ugly. So X is still unusable. And the wide black
column to the left side is simply ugly. Whre do I provide the RAM size
of my graphics adapter?
apt-get install discover
creates symlink /cdrom/cdrom0 to /cdrom0 Why????
No suddenly I have /cdrom, /cdrom{0,1,2,3}. Extremely weird. But no
entries in /etc/fstab for /cdrom?, only /cdrom. rm /cdrom{0,1,2,3}
Of course, there is also /floppy. Yucck
Final question.
I have only 8 years experience with Linux and a few with Debian (started
with 2.0).
How shall I ever recommend Linux and especially Debian to anybody, if
the installation is still so clumsy, and documentation (especially on
how to configure something, the EXACT format with ALL options of config
files etc.) is still either nonexistent or only to be found by a long
time developer.
Well, you could say, it's only for the guru or well informed initiated,
but
a) the time of gurudom in EDP should have stopped years ago.
b) don't you ever speak badly about M$ (it's a piece of sh*t, unsecure,
but at least it runs. Well their latest EULAs will take all of your
civil / human / whatsoever rights but in most cases it somhow runs and
can quickly be installed).
As much as I hate M$ I need a system to work with.
When I started out on Linux; I tool a pack of white paper and filled
most of them with questions, but despite reading all I could on Linux,
not a single book, not a single article has ever been able to answer
only one question. That's a) terrible, b) a clear indication Linux needs
much better, didactically divine documentation (for users, that is
people who want to know how to dothings, not gurus, who just want to
know that they didn't find anything new in a book / article, already
knew all of it, slap themselves on their shoulder and feel wonderful).
The only thing to help me was a few years' experience in mainframes and
DOS.
When I started out on slackware it took me about half an hour to hae the
first runing system (finding the right kernel wat the bigest problem).
Then I wanted my modem to work and tried almost anything (Suse, Redhat,
Caldera, DLD, up to Debian). As Debian 2.0 also installed quite
smoothely, I continued using this. But the higher the version number,
the worse it's installation routine became. 2.2 was a pain in the a* (at
least if youn try to install X). And, as documented here, 3.0 is even
worse.
I once offered to do tranlations, but so far have not been able to get
the stuf out of the CVS repository (because it's only accessible under
Linux, so, if you are unable to access the web under Linux (as I was for
several years up to shortly before, external modem never yielding more
than 100 bits per secons, AVM Fritz PCI card v 2.0 not working under
Potato (at least I couldn't find any open source drivers, or any driver
for Debian, Suse / Redhat there they are galore)), I couln't help
despite wanting to do so.
Same goes for documentation, how shall anybody (even me, I like
documentation as stated above) do it, with nothing being provided (no I
don't read source code).
So any help will be greatly appreciated. Links to _good_ and _complete_
documentation in
any EU language except Greek / Finnish, as well as Japanese, Korean or
easy Russian will be be thankfully accepted.
Thanks a lot in advance
Axel Schlicht
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