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Re: Would like review of what seems to be a blend forming for the cloud



Hi Jonas,

Thanks for taking the time to assist. It is correct that I believe the cloud team is currently building a Debian derivative but I don't think the cloud team realizes it. Part of my post to the cloud team is asking exactly what it is they are trying to achieve and if the published images are supposed to be interpreted as being official Debian/Wheezy. The nature of the work on the cloud list has been experimental and it seems the cloud team understands this to be the case. 

It is passed the point of tiny tweaks to support a use case by far. The user experience of being experimented on with the EC2 AMIs was personally so intolerable I had to stop using the output of the project some time ago. The direction taken in the last couple days is even more so concerning. The root of my concern is that the output of the project is deceiving as it is not at all obvious that the behavior of the Debian Cloud based images would deviate from the CD/DVD install media: https://aws.amazon.com/marketplace/pp/B00AA27RK4/ref=srh_res_product_title?ie=UTF8&sr=0-2&qid=1397501517662

I think the cloud team does want the output of the work to be integrated into Debian as a whole. I don't think that the work they are performing isn't expected to improve things for the OS. In fact, what they are doing is just integrating it with out coordination outside of the team then publishing that with "Debian/Wheezy" on it insufficient warning to end users that experimentation is in progress. I may be wrong but it seems like the cloud team is working to produce what would be a pure blend though not realize it. To be honest I didn't know a blend team existed until I went to find another community inside Debian that might be able to assist. This really did look like it would be the best place to start because of the total overlap. 

I have some additional questions if you don't mind answering them:

1) How does the blend team handle naming and labeling of the products? Can a blend be called "Debian/Wheezy" when distributed? 
  1a) can you point me at policies regarding this topic? I haven't been able to find any and debian-policy didn't seem to be the right list either

2) What status is typical for a blend to exist in? How much experimentation exists? Do blends follow the testing and release cycle like the larger project?

3) Does it sound like Debian Cloud would be an appropriate pure blend if the work conformed to Debian policies? I think the cloud team would agree they working on adding in features to help improve the user experience and workflow for users in the cloud. 

I'll relay this information to the cloud team to help them gauge how they work they are performing falls into scope of the Debian project as a whole. 

Thanks again,

Tyler

On Apr 14, 2014, at 11:40 AM, Jonas Smedegaard <dr@jones.dk> wrote:

> Hi Tyler,
> 
> Quoting Tyler Riddle (2014-04-14 18:45:16)
>> It seems that what the members of the [cloud] team are doing is 
>> creating a blend for the cloud [i.e.] what looks to be Debian/Wheezy 
>> but under the hood contains surprises and being experimented on (from 
>> the user perspective).
> 
> A Debian Blend is a Debian derivative that aims to become a pure subset 
> of Debian (i.e. a Debian Pure Blend).  More info on definitions here: 
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianPureBlends#Blend
> 
> By that definition, it seems your concern is that the cloud team does 
> _not_ produce a Debian Blend, but rather a (non-Blend) derivative.
> 
> Maybe they agree with that, or maybe they indeed feel that their changes 
> are small tweaks necessary for their use cases.
> 
> Here in the Blends team we care strongly about the definition of those 
> terms, but do not dictate how or how much a Blend can derive: A Debian 
> Pure Blend is governed by rules, policies and guidelines of Debian 
> itself, but a Debian Blend is, like any other derivative, external to 
> Debian and therefore not (yet) governed by Debian.
> 
> Hope that helps in your discussions with the cloud team.
> 
> 
> - Jonas
> 
> -- 
> * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
> * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
> 
> [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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