Re: [Debconf-team] Debconf thoughts
* Ana Guerrero <ana@debian.org> [2012-12-03 11:43]:
> On Mon, Dec 03, 2012 at 09:22:16AM +0100, Martin Wuertele wrote:
> >
> > The discrimination part seems to me is a subjective opinion that is not
> > shared by everyone. At least that is the impression I get from the
> > discussions over the last weeks (please not that I've been following
> > debconf-team for years).
>
> Discrimination is never subjective. They are rather unperceived, specially
> when they do not affect you.
I don't agree with, propably because I don't agree with your definition
of discrimination [cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination].
> Some people have a family member depending on them and they can not attend
> DebConf if they don't bring along this family member (some times, it is the
> opposite case). They are not expecting Debian to pay for this family member,
> but we don't give them any facility to come to DebConf if we held debconf
> in le Camp.
I haven't heard that this is the case, what I read on the list is that
there are buildings specifically for handicaped people on the one hand
and I haven't read anything about a veto for family members. Could you
please point me to the message concerning.
> We also have contributors who are tall, and le Camp beds do not seem suited
> for tall people (more than 190cm), some people might camp, but some others
> prefer a bed. A lot of people can get by 1-2 days, but a full week can be
> a (back) pain. Some of those people might prefer going to a hotel.
Can you backup your claim that beds are too small? This issue hasn't
been raised so far iirc.
> And probably many other reasons such a surgery recover, sleepwalking
> or snoring to the point you know that for other people sharing a room with
> you isn't healthy for them.
So basically the same issues that applied to Oslo, Porto Alegre,
Helsinki, Mexico, Edinburgh?
> In le Camp, the possibilities of affordable hotel are *far* away and you need
> a car, le Camp is served by public transportation but it is very limiting.
> (Somebody added in the wiki the distances by bike, but I don't know
> anyone who travels packing a bike in their suitcase...).
[OT: so you haven't been to Banja Luca where several attendees had their
folding bikes with them?]
> These people will also lose a big part of the DebConf experience
> beause they will spend a big part of the conference far away or
> commuting.
In Oslo and Helsinki there were quite some distances between venues,
tough these were walking distances. However this is an issue that can
propably be adressed, after all rental cars, car sharing,... are not
completely new concepts. In Porto Alegre we rented busses for dinner as
the venue was quite outside the center.
> So we are effectively discriminating some people in coming. If you are
> not affected in any of those case or similars, good for you, some
> other people are.
I don't see any dicrimination, I see issues that need to be solved.
> It will never be perfect but we should aim to make DebConf more inclusive,
> specially learning from the mistakes we have made in earlier years.
> The localteam did some research in venues a lot of months ago, we all made
> a mistake with that venue, we have found that is a mistake very early. So
> let's try solving it?
It seems to me with your last sentance that because you don't agree with
the venue, "we all made a mistake". Please refrain from speaking for the
project or debconf, last time I checked you were neither DPL nor
delegate and from all the messages posted I still have the impression
I am not the only one that does not agree with you.
Yours Martin
Reply to: