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Re: [gopher] Need suggestions regarding proposed Gopher History Archive contract



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On 04/11/2012 12:48 PM, John Goerzen wrote:
> Hi folks,
> 
> I have been in contact with Stanford University regarding placing a copy
> of my Gopherspace crawl from a few years ago over there.  I have
> attached the document they want me to sign, and below you can see some
> of the concerns I raised with them about it.  I am not a lawyer and
> would appreciate any advice.

<snip>

Hi Susan,

Please accept my apologies for not getting back to you sooner, but
considering that I am not a laywer, a lot of what you asked me to sign
off on didn't make enough sense to this layperson to feel comfortable
signing.

So here's what I can offer you. Please accept this letter as my
invitation for you to use, store, and make publicly freely available, at
your option, any and/or all of the so-called data collection in
question, under the terms of the Creative Commons License, except where
prior copyright or license would not permit.

Thanks,

John

</snip>

Something like that, perhaps?

> 
> -- John
> 
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject:     Re: [gopher] Gopher History Now Archived at ibiblio.org
> Date:     Tue, 3 Apr 2012 15:45:20 -0700 (PDT)
> From:     Susan L Rojo <srojo@stanford.edu>
> To:     John Goerzen <jgoerzen@complete.org>
> 
> 
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> Thank you for the thoughtful response. Your points regarding the
> physical/digital issue are well taken and you are not the first to raise
> them. We are slowly making changes to reflect this issue but at this
> point the deed modified as it is should suffice for our purposes. Let me
> clarify points below.
> 
> I am uncertain that I can represent that I am the owner of this data.
> We are declaring you the owner of the collection, not necessarily the
> owner from a content or copyright sense. Similarly, if you were donating
> your collection of Beatles memorabilia, we know you aren't the copyright
> holder or the only one to own a pair of Mickey ears.
> 
> Could I simply sign something authorizing Stanford to archive, preserve,
> etc. the collection, so far as I have the power to do?
> The Deed is the "simple" sign over for Stanford. We need to show the
> provenance of the collection and the deed is the way we do that. It has
> more legalese than is necessary for your collection but is our mechanism
> for starting the process. You aren't taking responsibility for every bit
> of data included and due to the nature of the collection Stanford
> understands that you did not create the data you have curated.
> 
> If Stanford intends to use its ownership of the material to remove the
> ability of others to access it through other means, this is not an
> overall benefit to the community.
> 
> In no way would Stanford try to stop others from using the data. The
> point of Stanford having a copy is to be sure a copy is saved "forever"
> for use specifically by students and faculty and also by the general
> population. Clause 5 clarifies that at this point Stanford is committing
> to preserving the data but will not be able to provide access to it
> until the point that it has been "processed." Some people expect that
> they give a donation to Stanford and can find it in the library catalog
> a week or two later. It takes longer than that and Stanford wants to be
> sure the donor understands this. In the case of the Gopher collection,
> there are multiple sources for access and this isn't an issue. We are
> working on an access mechanism for our digital repository but that is
> likely some time off.
> 
> 
> I hope I have addressed your concerns and that you are willing to move
> forward. I don't really have flexibility for changing the document more
> than I have to account for the nature of the collection. It is more of a
> formality in this case since, like you said, the data is readily
> available on the internet. It just happens to be a formality I have to
> follow.
> 
> Please let me know if you have any other questions or concerns.
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> ~Susan
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"John Goerzen" <jgoerzen@complete.org>
> *To: *"Susan L Rojo" <srojo@stanford.edu>
> *Sent: *Monday, April 2, 2012 12:11:48 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [gopher] Gopher History Now Archived at ibiblio.org
> 
> Hi Susan,
> 
> Thank you for re-sending.  The document made it this time.
> 
> I have reviewed it.  I would be quite pleased to see this collection
> housed at Stanford.  I hope the material can be preserved with the best
> possible access for everyone.
> 
> The agreement, however, appears tailored to physical (non-digital)
> items, and as such I still have the following concerns:
> 
>   1. I am uncertain that I can represent that I am the owner of this data.
>         1. I certainly collected it via a gopher crawl.  As such,
>            perhaps one could state that I am indeed the owner of the
>            collection as a whole; however, for something so easily
>            copied across the Internet, this language strikes me as
>            regressive and quite possibly inaccurate.  Stanford
>            obviously would have an interest in maintaining it; could I
>            simply sign something authorizing Stanford to archive,
>            preserve, etc. the collection, so far as I have the power to do?
>   2. The combination of clause 2 and 5 also concerns me.  As this data
>      is already generally available to researchers on the Internet, if
>      Stanford intends to use its ownership of the material to remove
>      the ability of others to access it through other means, this is
>      not an overall benefit to the community.
> 
> I do not know what degree of flexibility you have in these matters.  I
> would suggest, incidentally, that these questions are likely to arise
> with increasing frequency in the future, as more and more artifacts of
> historic interest are digital-only.  Would you like to proceed further?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -- John
> 
> 
> On 03/30/2012 04:44 PM, Susan L Rojo wrote:
> 
>    Hi John,
> 
>    Not sure what that glitch was but try the attached.
> 
>    Best,
>    ~Susan
> 
> 
>    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    *From: *"John Goerzen" <jgoerzen@complete.org>
>    *To: *"Susan L Rojo" <srojo@stanford.edu>
>    *Sent: *Wednesday, March 28, 2012 1:18:25 PM
>    *Subject: *Re: [gopher] Gopher History Now Archived at ibiblio.org
> 
>    Hi Susan,
> 
>    The attachment on this (and all the other messages you sent) didn't
>    make it through - it was present but empty.  Can you double-check
>    and try resending?
> 
>    -- John
> 
>    On 03/14/2012 05:50 PM, Susan L Rojo wrote:
> 
>        Hi John,
> 
>        Attached and ready for your review is the Deed of Gift for
>        yourGopher collection. If you have any questions, please let me
>        know. Otherwise, please print out two copies, sign both and
>        return them to me at the address in my signature.
> 
>        I have confirmed that we can transfer the data from the UNC site
>        as you suggested.
> 
>        Thank you again for your patience and your willingness to work
>        with us.
> 
>        Best,
>        ~Susan
> 
> 
>       
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>        *From: *"John Goerzen" <jgoerzen@complete.org>
>        *To: *"Susan L Rojo" <srojo@stanford.edu>
>        *Sent: *Friday, December 16, 2011 2:11:33 PM
>        *Subject: *Re: [gopher] Gopher History Now Archived at ibiblio.org
> 
>        Hi Susan,
> 
>        To answer your questions:
> 
>        1) The easiest way to transfer the data to Stanford would
>        probably be for someone there to simply download it from the UNC
>        site.
> 
>        2) I have no specific knowledge of data that should be
>        restricted from view.  However, having said that, this is a copy
>        of data that was sitting out there on the Internet.  It would be
>        naive of me to attempt to give an authoritative answer to that
>        question.
> 
>        3) I do not own the copyright to most of these files, with a few
>        exceptions.  (Data from my own server is included.)
> 
>        4) PO Box 393, Hesston, KS 67062.  620-367-2347.
> 
>        -- John
> 
>        On 12/15/2011 02:51 PM, Susan L Rojo wrote:
> 
>            Hi John,
> 
>            Thank you for letting me know.
> 
>            Below are a few questions I have to complete the deed of
>            gift for review by my manager. Once he approves it, I will
>            send it to you for your agreement or further discussion.
> 
>            How do you think we could best transfer the gopher data to
>            Stanford?
> 
>            Do you think there is data in the collection that should be
>            restricted from view for any reason?
> 
>            Do you own copyright to the files you will be donating?
> 
>            What is your address and phone (for the official document)?
> 
>            I also wanted to confirm that Stanford is planning to be a
>            long term custodian of the collection but at this time will
>            not be providing access to the data. This should be okay
>            since the data can be accessed at UNC.
> 
>            Best,
>            ~Susan
> 
> 
>           
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>            *From: *"John Goerzen" <jgoerzen@complete.org>
>            *To: *"Susan L Rojo" <srojo@stanford.edu>
>            *Sent: *Friday, December 9, 2011 1:26:20 PM
>            *Subject: *Re: [gopher] Gopher History Now Archived at
>            ibiblio.org
> 
>            Hi Susan,
> 
>            No problem.  As far as I know, that is the only copy UNC is
>            maintaining.  It is part of their large permanent data
>            collection.
> 
>            -- John
> 
>            On 12/08/2011 06:41 PM, Susan L Rojo wrote:
> 
>                So sorry for not seeing this earlier and sending the
>                follow up message!
> 
>                I appreciate your response and would like to pursue
>                this. Do you know if UNC is keeping a copy somewhere in
>                addition to the website you sent below?
> 
>                Best,
>                ~Susan
>                  PS. I'll be back in the office on Tuesday so may not
>                respond until then.
> 
>               
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                *From: *"John Goerzen" <jgoerzen@complete.org>
>                *To: *"Susan L Rojo" <srojo@stanford.edu>
>                *Sent: *Monday, December 5, 2011 7:04:14 AM
>                *Subject: *Re: [gopher] Gopher History Now Archived at
>                ibiblio.org
> 
>                Hi Susan,
> 
>                Thank you for following up with me.  Since we last
>                chatted, I found a home for the material at the
>                University of North Carolina's iBiblio project.  The
>                data lives here:
> 
>               
> http://torrent.ibiblio.org/doc/internet-gopher-archive-2007/181
> 
>               
> http://torrent.ibiblio.org/doc/quux-org-gopher-mirror-collection-2006/182
> 
>                I would be happy to have a copy at Stanford as well, but
>                I am not sure if it is a good fit; a deed of gift is
>                perhaps hard to apply to this kind of material, which
>                can be simply copied at will.  If you want to pursue it,
>                I'm open to that; but at the same time, given its home
>                at UNC, I'm OK with just leaving it there.
> 
>                -- John
> 
>                On 12/02/2011 06:35 PM, Susan L Rojo wrote:
> 
>                    Hi John,
> 
>                    My desk has cleared a bit and I am wondering (once
>                    again) if you are interested in donating your
>                    collection of Gopher materials to Stanford. If so, I
>                    will send you a few questions about the collection,
>                    draft a deed of gift for you to review, and then get
>                    the files transferred to Stanford.
> 
>                    Please let me know if you are interested.
> 
>                    Best,
>                    ~Susan
> 
> 
>                   
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>                    *From: *"John Goerzen" <jgoerzen@complete.org>
>                    *To: *"Susan L Rojo" <srojo@stanford.edu>
>                    *Sent: *Thursday, August 12, 2010 7:41:48 AM
>                    *Subject: *Re: [gopher] Gopher History Now Archived
>                    at ibiblio.org
> 
>                    On 08/11/2010 06:44 PM, Susan L Rojo wrote:
>                     > Hi John,
>                     > Congratulations on having your collection hosted by
>                     > http://torrent.ibiblio.org. I wanted to check in
>                    to see if you are still
>                     > interested in having it preserved at Stanford as
>                    well.
>                     >
>                     > Best,
>                     > ~Susan
> 
>                    Hi Susan,
> 
>                    Yes, I am still interested in having it at Stanford
>                    too, if that's still
>                    on the table on your end.
> 
>                    -- John
> 
> 
>                    --                    Susan Rojo
>                    Manager, Digital Media and Collections Projects
>                    HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall
>                    Stanford University Libraries
>                    Stanford CA 94305-6004
>                    AKA Mollie Mavendorf in SL
>                    @digiarchivist
>                    650.721.2752
>                    srojo@stanford.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
>                --                Susan Rojo
>                Manager, Digital Media and Collections Projects
>                HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall
>                Stanford University Libraries
>                Stanford CA 94305-6004
>                AKA Mollie Mavendorf in SL
>                @digiarchivist
>                650.721.2752
>                srojo@stanford.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
>            --            Susan Rojo
>            Manager, Digital Media and Collections Projects
>            HRG, Green Library, 557 Escondido Mall
>            Stanford University Libraries
>            Stanford CA 94305-6004
>            AKA Mollie Mavendorf in SL
>            @digiarchivist
>            650.721.2752
>            srojo@stanford.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Gopher-Project@lists.alioth.debian.org
> http://lists.alioth.debian.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gopher-project

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Manager Network Services
NorthTech Computer
TEL: +1.310.388.9469  (US)
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