Re: Future of X packages in Debian
On Fri, 2 Jul 2004, Daniel Stone wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 01, 2004 at 10:22:42PM +0200, Fabio Massimo Di Nitto wrote:
> > On Fri, 2 Jul 2004, Daniel Stone wrote:
> > > So call the group of people who can upload X something else.
> > >
> > > The XSF to me is meaningless as a concept
> >
> > If it is meaningless to you, it does not mean it is meaningless to the
> > entire community.
>
> It doesn't necessarily mean it isn't, either. I like to think I have a
> little bit of experience in XSF matters.
I know and i don't pretend to overrule your opinions. You know that, i
just express mine.
>
> > > - the BTS is world-write[0],
> > > and the really important X group are the gatekeepers to Debian - being
> > > yourself, Branden, and possibly Ishikawa. Let's call this group the DUX
> > > - Debian X Uploaders.
> >
> > <offtopic>DUX is not appropriate either for other political reasons that
> > would scare italian people away from here.</offtopic>
>
> Sorry, I didn't know.
>
No worries.. you couldn't ;)
> > > If I decide and propose something, will you upload it tomorrow?
> >
> > No, and you know that. it would still go trough the priority list, commit,
> > review and test. And you know as much as we do how much time it takes that
> > process. If you want to question the time we take to include things that's
> > a separate argument. If you want to question that we do not accept
> > anything than sorry but you know that is not true.
>
> The point I was making was that there is a group with significantly more
> power than everyone else, and the ultimate gatekeepers of Debian in X.
> If this is not true, and I'm part of the XSF, can I start uploading
> again?
You know that i personally don't care if you upload "my" packages. Like i
don't care if anybody else does, BUT only if there is a reason to do so
(like i am not doing a proper job on them).
Oh i am underlining "my" only because they are packages that have my name
in the changelog/maintainer field and i take responsability for them. Not
the ownership.
> > > The reality is that you guys make decisions -- good or bad -- and have
> > > the final say on what hits Debian, as it stands. This is not necessarily
> > > a bad thing, but it's far away from the Utopia you paint where everyone
> > > can do everything.
> >
> > Clearly there is some minimal filtering. We are not patch-o-matic robots.
> > And we take responsabilities for the changes we introduce. Personally if i
> > don't feel to comfortable in applying a patch, i rather prefer to check it
> > twice before inclusion. Specially because we will have to maintain it
> > during the time.
>
> Right, so you're saying you're part of a class of people who have powers
> and responsibilities in regard to Debian's X packages above and beyond
> the normal users?
I am not part of any special class, but yes it is clear to everybody that
who uploads have already some extra power... like a @d.o address and the
gpg key in the debian keyring. Otherwise you can't upload.
> > > I cannot contribute effectively, and I also feel that I cannot work
> > > within the XSF, while the SABDFL continues to feel he cannot work with
> > > me, and very rarely communicates with me. I have been actively removed
> > > from the DUX, and thus from X maintainence. That's why I can't
> > > contribute.
> >
> > And you are so wrong here. I am almost tired to repeat to you the same
> > thing over and over.. in irc and now on the mailing list.
>
> I don't feel I can work with the XSF as it stands. I worry that anything
> I contribute might end up being for nothing; far higher than normal.
> Thus, I don't contribute.
I remember only one bug report from you after i took the position of RM
and it has been fixed pretty fast iirc since it was high priority in the
TODO list. Anyway.. again is up to you..
> Now, take a deep breath, and imagine that you're not talking to Daniel
> Stone, but to someone who you've just pulled up in an internet cafe.
> What are their answers to all of the above?
It depends of course, but even a bug report is contributing.
> My point is that the XSF is not the important club to be in;
i am not trying to convince you to be part of anything neither i go around
with a XSF t-shirt ;)
> I invite you to rescind your Debian account and still claim you're a DD
> because sponsorship works. :P
Well.. to be hounest it did for me.. :P
> I think we need a name for xfree86's Uploaders. We'll call this mythical
> cabal that, and we can agree that that's a closed group that I'm not in,
> and that they are the arbiters of what goes into Debian's X. If the
> latter is not true, feel free to throw me in Uploaders, next upload.
There is no *cabal* and technically you don't need anything in the
Uploaders to upload any package ;)
Fabio
--
<user> fajita: step one
<fajita> Whatever the problem, step one is always to look in the error log.
<user> fajita: step two
<fajita> When in danger or in doubt, step two is to scream and shout.
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