Bug#601337: www.debian.org: move events/talks/ and events/speakers/ to the wiki
* Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> [2010-11-03 15:12:09 CET]:
> On Wed, 03 Nov 2010, Gerfried Fuchs wrote:
> > That's because noone sends in input. The webteam is too small to go dig
> > around random places to pick up stuff to offer here, and people aren't
> > sending in any stuff.
>
> I know that, it's part of the reason why I believe the wiki to be a better
> place.
>
> I am more likely to do the required efforts to publish my talks if I
> know that I can do it entirely alone. If I have to bother someone
> else, I start wondering:
> - how likely will I loose time because no one is going to act on my
> request?
Likelyness increases immensly with not even remotely giving it a try.
> - is my talk important enough to bother someone into adding it to the
> website?
If the talk is not considered important enough then one should fear
removal of it from the wiki page, too. If the wiki page is considered as
a random dumplace for everything, then it won't be useful or usable very
quickly.
A lot of people that I know of rather not bother with registering at
yet another wiki, creating yet another account and figuring out yet
another wiki syntax that is different everywhere around. That's a lot of
loops to jump through, compared to send a single mail, formatless, with
the information on the talk.
> Of course, in 99% of the time, the talk will be added and everything is
> fine but the simple fact of requiring someone else's work is creating a
> mental barrier to some people.
The simple fact of requiring another wiki login is creating mental
barrier to some people. We have a draw here.
> > How is editing a wiki page that requires login any easier than sending
> > a simple mail to debian-www@lists? I don't follow that reasoning.
>
> See above. Also the wiki makes it easier for occasionnal contributors
> to feel in the blanks, while on the website only regular contributors
> (which are already overworked) can fix stuff.
Again, mails are extremely simple, requests sent on IRC are also done
on regular basis, and actually - the amount of contributions on the wiki
in general doesn't really give me the impression that it would result in
better or even simply more content. Especially since there wasn't even a
try to discuss this before starting with the external effort.
> > So even before you tried to improve the situation you started right
> > ahead with forking the existing part instead of working to fix the
> > situation. Way to go, that's definitely a good approach.
>
> I believe the wiki page is the way to improve the situation that is
> sustainable on the long term. If the current approach was working, we
> would not have this discussion.
We would not have this discussion if you would have gotten in contact
*before* you started the page. Sorry, that argument is totally
ridiculous. Starting something externally yourself and claiming that
current state isn't working because *you* didn't even try to do a single
contact approach is making me laugh. Madly.
> If you really want to keep the webpage, I suggest at least to explain
> clearly how people should submit new talks. I bet that the "simple mail"
> to debian-www@ will become a bug report against www.debian.org to avoid
> loosing/missing request of speakers.
From the very first paragraph of the page:
"If a talk is missing, please get in touch with the [events people]
including all details."
If you didn't even get that far I fear others won't go any much further
on the wiki page neither. Wording improvements very welcome, as is a
discussion on wether this should be changed to debian-www or wether the
events people are willing to keep maintaining these parts.
Thanks for following the general Debian approach of non-communication.
Rhonda
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