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Re: Examples Debian WWW with css

Am Freitag, 19.11.04 um 03:34 Uhr schrieb Mike Hommey:

Tables are valid anywhere. Their use for layout is just not recommended,
but that applies to transitional and strict.

Answered to Frank already: Ther is a difference between just tables and _the_ tables - which are not valid HTML 4.01 strict.

I think it's much more important to revise the whole html code before
hand, it will prevent to have to do the css work twice. The process of
moving to clean code will take time anyways, and cannot be done, IMHO,

You make the second step first: reduced code is much easier to change, and CSS reduces code.

without having a staging area for test, i.e. not putting changes online
before everything is done.

The header for example goes the same way everywhere. It is easy to test and incluse css there, first only the header declarations used. Next step could be the footer, which you want to remove mostly.

And when i'm talking clean code, I don't only imply using fluid,
table-less design, but much more work, being having semantic html
structure, and no more than what is semantically needed.

You cannot remove tables without having a css for it. Or do you want to make a text site as for lynx before moving css? To remove the tables, which have the most ugly code, you have to have css. Or otherwise you will have to change the table code as a whole, which is much more work than changing a css file.

The only thing that causes user agents (well, _a_ user agent, being IE6)
to go to quirks mode when xhtml is used is the presence of the xml
declaration on top of the file, which is anyway not a MUST.

Does lynx support xhtml quite good, even in Debian stable? Do screen readers? Going to xhtml is a quite different discussion. It is not a must to use css. And if you want to discuss and change to before having CSS, nothing will ever happen, I think. It will take more time than a new debian release.

Another think: XHTML and HTML have different syntax for things like <hr> and <br>, so you cannot change the pages step by step, You will have to do it at once and change the header and the delivery (not als text/html only) at the same time.

There are a lot of reasons as to why to go to xhtml instead html,
including the fact that it's much easier to parse xml than sgml for
later uses.

If it so easy, why does w3c validator not fully support validation yet?

The language selection for those, wanting to change to another language
manually makes about 2.5 k for the support page. I do not think, that
this is much to care. But that is another discussion and has nothing to
do with moving to css.

Language selection + Mirror selection is between 5 and 6KB. On a 16KB
page (such as debian's home page) it is more than negligible.

for the main support page, which has much translations, it is about 2.5 k, which is much less as the home page. I assume, the average size is not more than on the support page. And the addional size is reduced, if css is used instead of tables for the header.

The list is a part of being Debian user friendly. But that too is another discussion and removing it independent from using CSS.

Original size of support page: 15225
I reduced it to between 14424 and 13360 byte only by using css.
But as that, you want to remove is nothing lelated to CSS, it would be better to open your own thread on removing the language list from pages.




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