Re: Examples Debian WWW with css
On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 09:40:59PM +0100, Jutta Wrage wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, 18.11.04 um 10:20 Uhr schrieb Mike Hommey:
> >My idea would be to go to clean html code first, and then tweak the
> That is a lot of double work.
> The tables are only valid as html transitional, not strict.
Tables are valid anywhere. Their use for layout is just not recommended,
but that applies to transitional and strict.
> 1. Making a simple css layout
> 2. removing the tables using the css stylesheets.
> 3. clean up the remaining code to go to strict (much less work as
> tables and other layout hacks are already removed then).
> 4. Making nicer CSS - which is only one file then.
> If you want to clear up code first, you will have no chance to get rid
> of the tables in that step without getting rather oldfashioned layout
> as in my own homepage. The only things, I have seen, which should be
> changed whenever seen:
> - adding missing end-tags </p>
> - discard the attibutes behind hr (they are simple defaults)
> If the code is fully revised _before_ having a css stylesheet, all the
> tables have to be made valid for strict and in a second step they will
> be removed afterwords. - frustrating useless work, I think.
I think it's much more important to revise the whole html code before
hand, it will prevent to have to do the css work twice. The process of
moving to clean code will take time anyways, and cannot be done, IMHO,
without having a staging area for test, i.e. not putting changes online
before everything is done.
And when i'm talking clean code, I don't only imply using fluid,
table-less design, but much more work, being having semantic html
structure, and no more than what is semantically needed.
> There are lots of discussions about, why to stay with HTML 4 strict
> instead of using XHTML. And personally I do not see any advantage of
> XHTML which may justify additional work and maybe errors causing user
> agents to go to quirks mode.
The only thing that causes user agents (well, _a_ user agent, being IE6)
to go to quirks mode when xhtml is used is the presence of the xml
declaration on top of the file, which is anyway not a MUST.
There are a lot of reasons as to why to go to xhtml instead html,
including the fact that it's much easier to parse xml than sgml for
> The language selection for those, wanting to change to another language
> manually makes about 2.5 k for the support page. I do not think, that
> this is much to care. But that is another discussion and has nothing to
> do with moving to css.
Language selection + Mirror selection is between 5 and 6KB. On a 16KB
page (such as debian's home page) it is more than negligible.