Re: Some thoughts regarding DW
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Am 15.08.2005 um 04:04 schrieb Hanna M. Wallach:
Debian Women is well placed to make a significant
contribution to the wider free software community.
Thank you for clarification.
I think, Debian-Women is really not the right place for me.
Let me give an example here, what i miss in Debian-Women:
Clear goals and discussion about them
Trying to discuss milestones to reach these goals
Beside that there are other things, I cannot handle with:
No acceptance if it is critisized, that changes in the web site are
not tested thoroughly before putting them online
Making decisions behind the scenes in an IRC-Channel or just only by
private mail exchange excluding others 
Handling issues with arguments: like "install unstable" (if something
is not available for your system)
Handling accessibilty issuse related to the web pages due to not
keeping web standards with arguments like "lynx is buggy, use links"
- - - we like it as it is.
The last one was one thing, that hurt me extremly, even if I for
myself can use graphical browsers. But there are people that have to
rely on lynx.
That out of the three subject in my mail only two are covered and not
the second one seems to be symptomatic for d-w.
Let me ask some question relatet to 2. subject of my former mail:
- - - How will d-w handle women, who are just users and search for
support do learn more about their Debian-System?
- - - Will the activities of the d-w members stick to forcing d-w in
the future as main goal? 
- - - How will d-w handle problems, when women feel they are threatened
by sexists inside debian-project? Will there be a place they can go
to without meetings men mostly?
- - - In all the users groups, channels you see about much less then 5%
real women (not only having female nick). So, assuming d-w will not
work on getting more female users, how does the project want to
increase the number of female developers?
- - - Who is Debian-Women? Who makes the decisions? Women only? Project
Leader (which is not a DD, but the project is a Debian project)? Core
members (who are those)? Random people in #debian-women? Everyone at
his/her own, but some are not allowed?
- - - How will d-w (like other parts of Debian do) respect that not all
people can express their thoughts as good in english as native
speakers can do?
I hesitated a lon time to try to get more clarification about the
goals and habit of/inside d-w. But that it was at least not possible
to find a solution for the dicts, which were not made up for my
personal fun but wanted by d-w people and the reaction against
clythie forced me to write that mail now. Hope people from outside
see it as it is: critics against the d-w project and not against
Debian as a whole.
I could express all this quite much better in my mothers tongue. But
as it is an international mailing list I use english as everyone, not
knowing, if I found always the right words.
 Here a citation of a public mail which forces this behaviour:
[...] please toss comments in
my direction before I do this. (Off-list email is fine if people are
concerned about staying on-topic or don't wish to get into long
about which is better in general. I'm just looking for impartial
There are some more messages about discussing other things offlist.
That might not be bad at all, if things are discussed later in the
list all. But in fact, it isn't very often. Debian is a community
project and would have been dead already, if it wasn't. I D-W becomes
a mostly closed group to other opinions and decisions are made only
by the project leader, it will die some day of just bubble along. The
success of d-w cannot only be measured by the counter how often it is
mentioned in press and weblogs.
 Everyone may make their own picture of what d-w members are doing/
have done inside Debian Project beside trying d-w itself. It is not
an accident that this question was sucbject in the discussions on
- - --http://www.witch.westfalen.de
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