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Re: Debian, lists and discrimination


I've tried here to answer your questions clearly, at least those which haven't been already answered elsewhere. If you wish to discuss this further, I suggest you reply to me off the list, because I doubt that many other people are interested in arguing further about stuff that is obvious to most of us. Anyway, to answer your questions:

1. Is the debian-women supporters page an accurate representation of debian support? (Amaya says fuller results are coming, so I'll wait.)

OK, that seems to have been answered by Amaya. Incase anyone has forgotten, Amaya states clearly on that page that it is unofficial. If you still have a question regarding that page, I suggest you ask Amaya directly, because the rest of us on this list can't help with that.

2. Should we allow any debian part to discriminate on the basis of male/female?

In my opinion no. In my opinion, debian does discriminate against women, in ways that the debian-women project is trying to address. See bug#263084 as an example of the kinds of positive action d-w people are involved in, and the way in which debian as a whole is happily helping with this stuff.

3. How does one fix a bug with a created list? (answered by pasc, with more details on IRC)


4. Why did no-one challenge a racist, classist, religionist and sexist post to debian-women? (you say "Who cares?")

Presumably because nobody felt like it, or had time/energy to do it. Why didn't you challenge it when it was made? Why didn't you challenge the sexist (demeaning to women), religionist (insulting to wicca/witches) and other such statements thave have been made on this mailing list? If you won't take responsibility for doing so, why are you accusing us of it?

Personally, I challenge statements that bother me when I notice them, if I have time etc. That doesn't make me (or any other individual, or the project as a whole) responsible for challenging every possibly objectionable statement when it was made.

5. Should discussions for which there are other debian lists be accepted on debian-women just because they involve women?

Yes, potentially. Some discussions on any mailing list may be also appropriate for a different list. Seeing as everyone in debian is welcome to join the debian-women list, that isn't a problem. Actually, I fully expect that the existance of debian-women will increase participation, particularly by women, on lists such as -devel and -mentors. I'm sure everyone here will agree that this is a good thing.

You are welcome to help us encourage women to be involved in all aspects of debian, which is one of the aims of this project (as stated on http://women.alioth.debian.org/faqs/ ). For example, maybe you could help out with the idea Erinn has mentioned previously (see earlier posts to the list) of organising and running helpful classes on -mentors.

6. What non-discriminatory action do debian-women wish to take that would not be possible (or even stronger) within a more general list of whatever name?

We wish to increase the participation of women in debian. It's a specfic aim, pitched at solving one of a range of similar problems within the debian community. This problem will not be as easily solved with a less focussed project (like your proposed -equality). However you are entirely welcome (encouraged, even), to start whatever other lists you like. I would be interested in -equality - I think it's a good idea.

Maybe debian-women isn't who I thought it was. #debian-women is far more nasty than most other debian channels I have used.

Well the response you got is probably a bit like the response I might get if I first wrote to debian-devel explaining that I found the debian project offensive and thought it shouldn't exist and should at the least change its name to something I liked better, and then joined #debian-devel and tried to impose my views on everyone there. Do you honestly think people would not say anything at all unpleasant to me?

A hint for next time you join #debian-women: starting by not questioning the validity of our existence will probably mean you get a friendlier discussion, if that is what you desire.


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