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Re: Debian-women support?

On Sat, Jul 24, 2004 at 02:59:06PM +0200, Amaya wrote:
> Erinn Clark wrote:

> Carla, I acknowledge that Erinn has made a great effort in getting
> Debian-Women into a tangible project, but so have I. 
> Given that Erinn will not give me credit on her answer to you, I will.

I think tempers were hot enough that credit wasn't intentionally skipped
over; they were accidently missed. I don't know about others here, but I was
at DebConf and I know that you were involved. I appreciate what you've done
and the work you continue to do and can only  hope you'll continue.

<snip - long list of amazing accomplishments>

> If I am not welcome, girls tell me now, I have lots of things to do. 
> I'm also in a low personal moment, and I'm lacking a lot of energy. 
> This project, same as Debian has always, fills me up with coping skills
> on the bad moments. 

Amaya, aside from Carla's response on the list (which was said in *anger*),
I doubt there would be consensus that you're not welcome here. You're an
amazing, thoughtful, intelligent, and kind woman. You have experience others
will need to draw from, strength that will help guide others to their goals
and tolerant and patient to a point some of us could only dream (especially

Mistakes have been made. The mistakes are in the process of being corrected,
and there's enough of us who have learned lessons through the mistakes that
we won't be taken off-guard if they happen again in the future.

I know things have been said in anger (I'm guilty of that, too. I should
*not* stay up until 4am while my blood is boiling over something.) and I
know you weren't expecting nor desiring any of this to happen. Please don't
be so hard on yourself over what's happened. It was bound to happen sooner
or later. Chin up and move on with us. =)

> The idea was to come back with good material and content so that the
> supporters page would make more sense to everyone. I guess I failed.

I'm not sure a supporters page is necessary. I know we've been discussing
it, but I'm still not convinced that we need this. We /know/ we're supported
by the community at large. There are many prominent members of the community
already on this list, and I'd wager a few more who have been lurking. The
thing is, there are so many who *do* support our goals, why single out only
a select few? Why put any above any of the others? They can post to the list
and end up in the archives. But, that's just my personal take. 

> Even if we don't have a supporters page at all, this should be in the
> hall of shame page. 

Ugh. No. Just let the shovanists die off. Well, maybe there is merit to
having a page devoted to the issues we face and give him credit there? It
seems only appropriate. 

> > Please do not feed the trolls.

Well, one good thing about JW's appearance on the list is that we have about
the worst of the trolling we're going to deal with. We now know what
arguments shovanists are going to use against us, and we know how we can
respond. We have the warning and knowledge to be able to privately  direct
new women who might be further intimidated by such displays in how to handle
these atrocious attacks and still move onwards.

If anything, this has been a learning experience and everyone on this list
in favor of the spirit of the goals we've stated can see what obstacles we
face now - the attitudes that will plague us for at least the next
generation. This is what we're up against, people. Ignorance. Refusal to
listen. Shovanism. Distrust.  At least JW is only discouraging and
destructive. It could be a lot, lot worse.

Don't feed the trolls, but try to learn something each time you stumble
across one.



Patty Langasek


At times, you may end up far away from you; you may not be 
sure of where you belong, anymore. But home is always 
there... because home is not a place. It's wherever your 
passion takes you.
                                --- J. Michael Straczynski

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