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Re: Debian-women support?

On Sat, Jul 24, 2004 at 05:13:24AM -0400, Erinn Clark wrote:
* miluz <miluz@free.fr> [2004:07:24 10:39 +0200]:
I'm not agree at all with "debian-women". I think that Debian is needed women, not the contrary. So, when you will have finished to congratulate yourself, I hope that you will start to work.?????

Well, I think you've jumped to conclusions a little. That's the whole point
of the project - to get women working in Debian. Since we're not moving
fast enough for you, how would you like to help? I can send several things
your way that need to be translated into French. Or would you like to help
host a bug squashing party? Introduce women to the Debian BTS and QA?
Maybe give a tutorial on package maintenance or cdbs or some such? Help us
write man pages for Debian? I look forward to your assistance. :)

This is exactly the sort of thing that made me speak of the Debian
"ladies auxiliary".  If you want to hang out with the boys, that is
fine, we are happy to have you.  But to pretend it is because we men do
not fascinate you is perverse and unproductive.  Why deny yourself
happiness?  Why deny love a chance?

All of the activities you mentioned are auxiliary, compared to what the
male Debian members do; we code up programs, we do packaging, we form
committees and decide on standards and how the system architecture
should work.

There is nothing wrong with the work you proposed to do; in fact, by
taking it on you relieve us male members of a large burden, allowing us
to be more productive.

I just think it is dishonest for you to demand we treat you equally when
your interests aren't even the same as ours.

If you are worried about the "Debian Ladies Auxiliary" tag leading to
you being ghettoized, I have a suggestion.

Form "translation", "bug squashing organizing" and such-like teams.  Let
them be open to male and female.  Then join whichever one suits your
fancy.  As happens in real life, the sexes differentiate themselves not
just by biology, but by their interests and inclinations.  I believe
that is what is already happening here.  Why not let it happen?  Just
don't bash the male members of the project in so doing.

I've suggested, in France, to find an other name to this list - like "debian-enlist"- starting on a female page on the site debian.org, which allow us the greatest latitude to talk about feminism (that I need too). But also to make workers outside our fight. The danger is to deprive us of men's knowledge and information we need, they will fastly be discouraged, disgusted of their own part of guilty, and tempt to troll us.

Right. "I have no idea what this project is about, but you're doing it all

She has a lot of practical wisdom and knowledge of human psychology.
You would do well to listen to her.

They are not gently between them, because of the high level of debian. Why do they have to be gently with us? Do you want to continue to be traited like poor little things? I know that women are not well traited all around the world, but debian is a really good way to forgot our feminin condition. The best tool we can have to start to work without difference. You are not agree?

Again, you seem to have missed the point.

No, she hasn't missed the point.  First you say you don't want special
treatment, then you say that is not good enough, so you do want special
treatment.  I say, make up your mind or we males will eventually make it
up for you, the way God intended.

Miluz, we have the same goals. If you weren't on the defensive from the
beginning, you might not have missed this.

She knows what her goals are; yours are either a) nebulous or b) you are
trying to carve out an empire for yourself.  Which is it?


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