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Re: Informal Discussion: Identities of Voters Casting a Particular Ballot are No Longer Public

On 2/14/22 09:53, Sam Hartman wrote:
Steve certainly found feedback he got to be harassment.
I did as well.

I received some harassment (not a lot, but some) over this too. My recollection is this was coming from non-DDs.

Given the levels of harassment that others were talking about at the time, I did put serious thought into to what extent I needed to loop my employer in on this. That was the first time I've ever had to consider such action for volunteer work, Debian, FOSS, or otherwise.

On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 5:56 AM Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> wrote:
If we are assuming that some DDs might start attacking people based on
the way they voted, then I'd suggest that it's more important to eject
such toxic people from Debian than it is to try to mitigate their
toxicity using measures that have negative side-effects.

I agree that we should expel toxic DDs. Nobody wants to work with jerks.

But secret ballots may be useful for other reasons, not least of which is that the harassment may come from outsiders, for which expulsion is not an available remedy. And even expulsion doesn't prevent a then former-DD from harassing people in the future, which we've seen happen; though of course this is not limited to voted positions.

Secret ballots are certainly not a panacea that solves all harassment, but they may be a risk reduction measure.

On 2/14/22 15:36 (later than the email below), Felix Lechner wrote:
[the above bit from Philip Hands quoted]
 > I see no way to expel people reliably based on what they might do.

I don't see anything in there suggesting we should expel people based on what they _might_ do.

On 2/14/22 12:42, Felix Lechner wrote:
[the above bit from Philip Hands quoted]
All of them were condemned by later generations: the Salem witch hunt;
McCartyism; the cultural revolution in China; collectivisation under
Pol Pot in Cambodia; and perhaps most infamously the many attempts
over time to expel or eradicate the Jews from various territories.

Expelling people (from a volunteer software project) who are acting in toxic ways is not remotely the same as any of those things, and even if you're against doing that, comparing it to the Holocaust is frankly disgusting.

This is a perfect example of behavior where the action is a problem regardless of the cause/intention. Either you are so lacking in experience, perspective, and/or judgement that you cannot see why this comment is inappropriate, or you know exactly what you are doing and are intentionally choosing to (act in bad faith to) wind people up.

If it's the former, then while your intentions may be good, you really need to understand that this is not okay, even if you don't/can't understand why. Stop posting such things. Moving forward, if you wish to participate in these discussions, maybe try having a friend privately review your email before posting publicly.


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