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Re: Proposal - preserve freedom of choice of init systems

Tollef Fog Heen writes ("Re: Proposal - preserve freedom of choice of init systems"):
> ]] Russ Allbery
> (Dropped DAM and personal Ccs)

(Dropped -project)

> The previous decision does say that it is replaced completely by the
> text of such a position statement and I do note that the proposed GR
> does, very carefully, not refer to systemd as the default.

I concur with Matthew's reasons for not explicitly mentioning systemd
as the default.  But it does clearly say that the TC decision on the
default init system stands.

>  It makes for a clumsier construction, which when combined with the
> level of legal-ish arguments being made here, makes me suspicious.

It is indeed unfortunate that we are having these kind of arguments
over the precise language in these texts.  I hope the comments from
Matthew on the point of the default are clear and that you are

So to recap:

 * I think everyone on the TC agrees that a GR on this subject (which
   includes the coupling question, not just the default question)
   should be capable of being binding even with only 1:1 majority.

 * Matthew's proposal is trying to answer the coupling question, with
   a 1:1 majority GR, without disturbing the TC's answer to the
   default question.

 * Unfortunately there have been some arguments about the exact
   wordings which are required to achieve this effect, and the
   resulting texts are clumsy and less clear than they could be.

> I think it's a terrible idea.  Ian writes that he specificially made it
> as broad as he did in order to create this situation so that anything
> could be included.

As you know, I wanted the coupling question dealt with in the original
TC decision.  For reasons that I don't want to go into again, that
didn't happen.

I anticipated that attempts to get the coupling question decided by
the TC would fail.  I have made no secret of my intent to support a GR
if the TC failed to answer this question.

> > Also, separately, please don't attack Ian for things that Matthew
> > proposed, or for clauses in previous decision that Bdale drafted in
> > conjunction with the project secretary.  This is not a situation of Ian's
> > creation.
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/03/msg00020.html, by Ian:
>   That GR override clause was written by me.  I specifically drew it
>   widely precisely so that, amongst other things, a GR could answer
>   questions that the TC has failed to answer.
> I don't think pointing at Ian for the clause is particularly unfair.
> Ian's also seconded the proposed GR, which generally means you agree
> with whatever you're seconding.


I would have been happier with my previous GR override text, which was
much clearer, but the Secretary told me that a GR attempting to invoke
it would still require 2:1.


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